Medieval sword - opinions needed

[AHorsa]

Critical opinions are also very welcome

[fernando]

Originally Posted by AHorsa

Critical opinions are also very welcome

Andreas, it takes a lot of guts to risk buying these things. Assuming this is the real stuff and the seller was not missing his meds, it must have cost you the equivalent to a couple (or triple) of anyone's pension check.
Within my honest ignorance, i would not dare go into it, unless it was a 'honest' replica, like this one assumed to be a reproduction, made for pedagogic purposes.
Hopefully one of our members qualified in this subject pops up with a true diagnosis.
Pray the Gods your example is authentic !


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[AHorsa]

Hi Fernando,

I very much appreciate your reply. It is absolutely not hursh but the truth. I am aware that this is a very dangerous field. In this case I know the sword and the seller since years as well as the background story of the sword. Otherwise I wouldn´t even contemplate such an acquisition. But the latter I cannot proof, although it is a pretty convincing story. The seller is a fine person and kindly is okay that I double check the sword. So I need to do by best to verify.

Fernando, the example you showed is an amazing example of how well made faked swords can be. Do you have better images of the structure of its surface?

Is there any scientific way to get such a piece checked? E.g. material analysis or so?

Thanks and kind regards
Andreas

[fernando]

Originally Posted by AHorsa

Do you have better images of the structure of its surface?...

I am afraid these are the two pictures i have; a courtesy of the current owner !

[Lee]

Originally Posted by fernando

...it takes a lot of guts to risk buying these things...

Indeed it does and the terrain is much more treacherous now than when I started collecting such things 40 years ago this month. I believe it has been more than a decade now since I have indulged.

Originally Posted by AHorsa

Is there any scientific way to get such a piece checked? E.g. material analysis or so?

Non-destructively, XRF (X-Ray Fluorescence) will report elemental composition of the surface for all but the lightest elements. The "devil is in the details" of interpreting the results. Sometimes one can 'denounce' a piece as a modern forgery on the basis of XRF, but the opposite of confirming authenticity is not possible, with "not inconsistent with an authentic antique" being about the best you can hope for.

Destructively, a small sample may be taken for metallographic examination. With a sword like Ahorsa's with a loose crossguard, a small sample from the blade shoulder may be taken without spoiling the appearance. Once I bought a sword from photographs, upon arrival it was clearly wrong. To satisfy the return requirement I had to get a museum to denounce it. Very fortunately I had a contact able to arrange for an archeometallurgist to take and examine such a specimen. It was clearly "post-Bessemer" or modern steel and the dealer graciously accepted the return. Once again, however, there are bladesmiths exploring making bloomery iron in the old ways and so, once again, "not inconsistent with an authentic antique" is about the best you can hope for. Fortunately, most forgers will not go to the trouble to avoid modern technology.

The aspiring medieval sword collector needs to see and handle as many known, reliably provenanced examples as possible and a few known forgeries as well to 'train' their eyes and brain. The overall form and decoration must be carefully considered as well as the patina.

I am cautiously optimistic towards Ahorsa's recent acquisition, and that is about the best I can do from images.

[cornelistromp]

Hi Andreas,
as a type this would be an Okeshott type Xa from around 1050-1100. after 900 years the oxidation of the sword looks very even over the entire surface. It is possible after 900 years but is almost unheard of, or at least so rare that it could be an omen.
After 2000, tens of thousands of most medieval sword forgeries were made, so it helps if the sword can be proven before 2000. So not through a story alone.
In any case I would try to find the previous owner or finder.
A medieval sword doesn't pop out of nowhere.
The black patina in water finds is goethite, which is glass hard and difficult to remove, even mechanically.
You could have the patina tested for hardness and chemically with, for example, acetone or other chemical solvent. If it gives off black, it is a recently applied patina.
The style is good but the tang is a bit slim under the pommel for this type with a heavy blade.
water finds from this period are included in the appendix.
I hope it will help you, good luck

[werecow]

That looks familiar... Is that the current exhibit in the Leiden Oudheden museum?