Proposed Changes in Swap Forum Rules

[Lee]

The Moderator's Team is considering this new 'rules set' for the swap forum:

1. This forum is to be used only for the posting of classified advertisements for ethnographic related items. Please update your ad when an item is no longer available for purchase.

2. BUYER BEWARE (caveat emptor). This Forum is NOT moderated, and the website (including the forums, staff and owner) is not responsible for anything posted here. The seller is solely responsible for his or her postings.

3. Ads without the following may be deleted without notice:
asking price, seller's email address.

4. Ads with the following may be deleted without notice:
links to eBay or other auctions, links to commercial websites.

5. All other rules of these forums must be observed.

Constructive comments and observations on the swap forum, on how it exists presently and how it may be improved, may be made as replies to this thread or may be privately communicated to the moderator of your choice.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks for the heads up Lee, you have mail and you are most welcome to use points within for further discussions with the team.

Thanks

Gav

[kahnjar1]

Hi Lee,
I am assuming the "1" would include books related to antique/ethnographic weapons of all sorts?
Regarding "3"...............often a seller is prepared to accept "reasonable offers" on an item or may not have a clue as to an items worth, OR may have several items for sale and would prefer to deal with GENUINE buyers rather than "tire kickers". I agree with all other proposed requirements of this rule but would personally prefer to see the need to state a price removed.
Also don't forget that this Forum covers "wanted" ads which it would impossible to put a price on.
While I accept the need for rules, I would not like to see things get too cumbersome or restrictive. Status quo seems to be working OK?????????
Regards Stuart

[Maurice]

Hi Lee,

Why changing the rules as it is working as it is now?

Here my opinion:
About 1, 2 and 5 agreed.

About 3: I don't agree, because sometimes you can come to a price, swap, after letting people on the forum know that you are considering letting a piece go....Maybe somebody wants it badly enough to offer a price that the owner will pulled over the line to let it go for. Than 2 collectors are happy. The one who sold/swapped it, and the one who needed this piece to complete his collection....

About 4: don't agree. What is the problem of letting collectors know that there is something on auction or for sale on a personal website or ebay?
What's wrong of showing people were to find stuff they collect?
Nobody is forced to visit the website or ebay link and also nobody is forced to buy an item...

Just my opinion!
Rg,
Maurice

[asomotif]

Hello Lee,

I feel that too much rules might slowly suficate this forum.
Look at the keris swap forum...
We extensivley discussed the rules and I am happy that we banned "profesional" traders on that part (as they where often selling newly made and/or pimped up crap á blingbling ).

But on the entno swap I don't see much crappy stuff being offered.
I am happy with the updates that certain traders post there. (although if needed I can ofcourse sign up to there newsletters.)
But, if I sign up to their newsletters I have one reason less to visit the swap, so one reason less to visit the forum

So my opinion on nr. 4 : don't agree

As for point 3.

An asking price would be appreciated, but is not absolutely necesarry for me.
mentioning an e-mail address. No, rather not.
I don't mind being contacted by forum members, but putting my e-mail address out open will mean that everybody can contact me, and above that add me to spam or mailings.
Fyi, I have no spam filter and I receive "zero" spam by e-mail because I am rather choosy of where I leavy my address.

So as for Nr. 3 don't agree.

The other points are fine with me.

Best regards,
Willem

[kahnjar1]

I sincerely hope that there has been more interest in this subject than the replies here suggest!!

As it is too late to edit my original post, I just want to add that, in further relation to Proposal 3, that as this Forum is PRIMARILY for MEMBERS, the reply "system" of Private Messages already exists by way of the Member List, and it should be the MEMBERS CHOICE as to whether he chooses to devulge his email address.

Also I wish to reitterate as other replies here have indicated, that the present situation appears to be working well, and why change something which is NOT BROKEN !!

PERHAPS SOME OF THE MODERATORS WOULD CARE TO COMMENT HERE ON WHY THEY SEE THE NEED TO CHANGE THINGS??

ALSO, SINCE THIS POTENTIALLY WILL AFFECT THAT SECTION, I BELIEVE THAT THIS DISCUSSION SHOULD ALSO APPEAR AS A STICKY ON THE SWAP FORUM.

Regards, Stuart

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

But, if I sign up to their newsletters I have one reason less to visit the swap, so one reason less to visit the forum

Is the swap forum really a major reason for anyone to visit these forums? Isn't it the intensive and well-informed discussion of ethnographic weapons which, AFAIK can't be found at this level anywhere else on the Internet? The swap forum was originally begun to allow our collecting members a way to dispose of items they no longer wanted and offer them to other collecting members who might have a place in their collections for such an item. It was never intended to be a clearing house for dealers or a place for competitive auctions.

Originally Posted by Maurice

About 3: I don't agree, because sometimes you can come to a price, swap, after letting people on the forum know that you are considering letting a piece go....Maybe somebody wants it badly enough to offer a price that the owner will pulled over the line to let it go for. Than 2 collectors are happy. The one who sold/swapped it, and the one who needed this piece to complete his collection....

I am confused about this reasoning. Naming a price in no way means that the seller cannot settle for a lower price in negotiation with a buyer or decide to trade with a potential buyer if the buyer offers a piece that interests the seller. It does set the price that the seller expects and keeps the swap from becoming an auction house with competing bidding. It also give a potential swapper an idea of the value of the piece in the seller's eyes and some idea of what might be an acceptable item to offer in swap to the seller.

Originally Posted by Clubs & Arrows

The sites that are advertised in the swap forum are weapons based, and from time to time the site owners will remind us that they are still updating the sites, or having sales, etc. If you block them from advertising, will people discussing particular items from so and so's website (past or present) be a problem? What about people using captured images of pieces from other individual's sites?

It has always been a problem to discuss particular items that are currently up for sale or auction. I believe the same would be true of captured images if the item is currently up for sale.
In terms of regular dealers making people aware of their websites, websites can always be posted in a member's profile page. Perhaps dealer members could have a dealer designation on their avatar so that other members would know to look in their profile for their websites. As for updates, i would assume that active dealers are always updating their websites and that interested parties would check in from time to time anyway.

[Royston]

Gents,

I have been following this and trying to make my mind up.
I do not come here to buy, sell or swap ( although I have done all three ).
I come here for knowledge and exchange of information. I have learnt a lot in the 2 years that I have been a member.

I think that the present system for the swap forum works well enough, if people want to list their email address and price then it should be up to them.
As already stated it is easy enough to look at other sites to get an idea of prices and buyers can make up their own minds about what an item is worth TO THEM.

So item 3 is not necessary for me.

As far as item 4 goes, I think that a regular contributor should be able to list links, but if someone is only on the site for selling and nothing else then they should be asked to " change their ways"

regards
Roy

[Atlantia]

I don't use the swap forum much... well, at all TBH, but I will do at some point, and in fact I've been meaning to get around to putting some things on there.
To be completely honest, I think there are enough rules already.
I've had a few things to list for a while and I keep thinking 'Oh I'll put that on Vikingsword' then I think 'what was the rule about putting something up that's been discussed'? Has it been long enough, will I upset anyone....
So I haven't yet posted anything.

In my humble opinion, for that reason the rules already work against the best interests of members in that respect. If a member decides to sell something that's been discussed, it's just easier to sell it elsewhere than risk contravention of the rules here.
I would respectfully offer the opinion that it should be encouraged for members to offer items here first. Especially as many members have somewhat 'esoteric' tastes that are difficult to cater for. A healthy swap forum would seem to be in everyones best interests.
Also, as someone who often sells things via 'offers' I have to disagree with making a price mandatory.
As for links to off-site sales.....
Well, I can see an argument for not allowing people to simply use this place as a shop-window for sure, but to be frank, some of the commercial wesite owners who promote their sites/items here are absolute cornerstones of the community.
Like Gav! Always helpful, generous with his time and a total asset to the site (Send the fiver to the usual address Gav ) But seriuosly, what would anyone gain by stopping him or others like him from using the swap forum as they do at present?
Of course Gav's not the only one, appologies to those not mentioned.
So for me, leave as-is or loosen the rules a little!

The only limit I would be in favour of would be to stop people ONLY posting in the swap forum.

Anyway, thats my 2c. Total respect to the great Mod team of course. Hope I've not offended anyone, as I consider you all friends.

[VANDOO]

RULES CAN STIFLE BUT ARE ALSO NECESSARY. THE MODERATORS HAVE OBVIOUSLY FOUND PROBLEMS THAT NEED TO BE REMIDIED. I WILL BE CONTENT TO LET THEM DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO MAKE THE SWAP FORUMS RUN AS INTENDED.
THE USE OF THE WORD "MAY" SIMPLY IMPLYS THAT EVERY CASE WILL BE JUDGED ON ITS OWN MERIT. AS NO TWO CASES WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME THAT GIVES THEM SOME LATITUDE TO JUDGE FAIRLY. HOPEFULLY THIS LATITUDE WILL KEEP RULES FROM BEING TOO DRACONIAN AND ABSOLUTE.

MY DEFINITION OF DEALER FALL INTO CATEGORYS.

1. DEALER = ONE WHO IS ONLY INTERESTED IN THE MONEY HE CAN MAKE SELLING AN ITEM AND HAS NO PERSONEL INTREST IN OR DESIRE TO COLLECT AND ONLY WANTS INFORMATION ON THE ITEMS SO HE CAN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE WORTH. THEIR PRIMARY COLLECTION IS MONEY.

2. DEALER COLLECTOR = ONE WHO COLLECTS AND RESELLS ITEMS TO UP-GRADE HIS OWN COLLECTION OR TO GET THE MONEY TO BUY SOMETHING IN ANOTHER TYPE OR STYLE. THIS PRUNING OF ONES COLLECTION DOES LEAD TO MORE CASH FOR NEW PURCHASES AS WELL AS UPGRADES THE COLLECTION AND MAKES ITEMS AVAILABLE TO OTHER COLLECTIONS. OFTEN THE FOCUS OF A COLLECTION WILL GO IN ANOTHER DIRECTION, NECESATING A SELL OFF AND AGE OR FINANCES CAN ALSO LEAD TO SELLING OFF.

3. HARD CORE COLLECTOR = JUST COLLECTS AND NEVER SELLS UNLESS ITS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY OR PERHAPS TO FRIENDS.

AS TO HAVING A PRICE POSTED I DO LIKE TO SEE ONE SO I DON'T PESTER SOMEONE ASKING ABOUT SOMETHING I CAN'T AFFORD. NEWLY MADE ITEMS OFFERED AS ANTIQUE HAS NOT BEEN MUCH OF A PROBLEM ON THE ETHINOGRAPHIC SWAP SO FAR.

AS DISCUSSION OF ITEMS IS NO LONGER ALLOWED ON THE SWAP ALL OLD POSTS SHOULD BE DELETED AFTER AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF TIME OR WHEN THE ITEMS ARE SOLD.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

RULES CAN STIFLE BUT ARE ALSO NECESSARY. THE MODERATORS HAVE OBVIOUSLY FOUND PROBLEMS THAT NEED TO BE REMIDIED. I WILL BE CONTENT TO LET THEM DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO MAKE THE SWAP FORUMS RUN AS INTENDED.
THE USE OF THE WORD "MAY" SIMPLY IMPLYS THAT EVERY CASE WILL BE JUDGED ON ITS OWN MERIT. AS NO TWO CASES WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME THAT GIVES THEM SOME LATITUDE TO JUDGE FAIRLY. HOPEFULLY THIS LATITUDE WILL KEEP RULES FROM BEING TOO DRACONIAN AND ABSOLUTE.

MY DEFINITION OF DEALER FALL INTO CATEGORYS.

1. DEALER = ONE WHO IS ONLY INTERESTED IN THE MONEY HE CAN MAKE SELLING AN ITEM AND HAS NO PERSONEL INTREST IN OR DESIRE TO COLLECT AND ONLY WANTS INFORMATION ON THE ITEMS SO HE CAN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE WORTH. THEIR PRIMARY COLLECTION IS MONEY.

2. DEALER COLLECTOR = ONE WHO COLLECTS AND RESELLS ITEMS TO UP-GRADE HIS OWN COLLECTION OR TO GET THE MONEY TO BUY SOMETHING IN ANOTHER TYPE OR STYLE. THIS PRUNING OF ONES COLLECTION DOES LEAD TO MORE CASH FOR NEW PURCHASES AS WELL AS UPGRADES THE COLLECTION AND MAKES ITEMS AVAILABLE TO OTHER COLLECTIONS. OFTEN THE FOCUS OF A COLLECTION WILL GO IN ANOTHER DIRECTION, NECESATING A SELL OFF AND AGE OR FINANCES CAN ALSO LEAD TO SELLING OFF.

3. HARD CORE COLLECTOR = JUST COLLECTS AND NEVER SELLS UNLESS ITS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY OR PERHAPS TO FRIENDS.

AS TO HAVING A PRICE POSTED I DO LIKE TO SEE ONE SO I DON'T PESTER SOMEONE ASKING ABOUT SOMETHING I CAN'T AFFORD. NEWLY MADE ITEMS OFFERED AS ANTIQUE HAS NOT BEEN MUCH OF A PROBLEM ON THE ETHINOGRAPHIC SWAP SO FAR.

AS DISCUSSION OF ITEMS IS NO LONGER ALLOWED ON THE SWAP ALL OLD POSTS SHOULD BE DELETED AFTER AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF TIME OR WHEN THE ITEMS ARE SOLD.

Thanks for your input, Vandoo. I like the flexibility the "may" provides also.

Incidentally, folks, I think most of the staff agrees with the constructive points made about requiring an email address. We are discussing deleting that from the proposed rules.