Help required to identify a strange stamp on a Kaskara blade

[Miguel]

Hello Everyone,

I have two very ordinary Kaskaras in my collection. The first one I believe to be completely original having a leather scabbard and wooden leather bound hilt with leather disc pommel and iron crossgaurd with two languets one of which has a piece broken off. The 36.75 ins double edged blade has three narrow, shallow fullers for a short distance changing to a single central fuller about which are stamped back to back crescent moon marks.
Having read through the various excellent threads on blade marks I believe that on this sword they are talismanic stamped by a local smith, I also believe that the blade is African made but if possible I would welcome confirmation or otherwise.

The second sword has had its hilt rebound with cord and a replacement steel pommel disc. The scabbard is also a replacement, this work being done about twenty or so years ago. The 35.75 ins double edged blade is slightly more narrow than the first one and has a single central fuller on each side for a short distance. This fuller is wider, deeper and better formed than those on the first sword. On one side, in the centre of the fuller, is a strange stamp mark, I cant make out what it represents, a frog, a turtle I don't know. I have searched through the above mentioned threads together with internet searches but just cant place it. I am hoping that someone will recognize it and also confirm whether or not the blade is African made or European. Both blades are quite springy.
Thank you.
Miguel

[Edster]

Hello Miguel,

I think the mark on the top sword is a maker's mark. It's a take off from the Man in the Moon face on some German blades. Various sword smiths in Kassala, Sudan mark their blades with variations circles, curves lines and dots. Your mark might be a rendition of the Arabic number 40 or Arbane. A Kassala smith named Awad Adam had a similar mark but with a complete circle with the arbane inside. A similar close rendition was used by Hassan Shaykh Idris. I could hardly tell the difference, but the smith community was aware of subtle differences. Date would be mid to late 20th Cent.

The second blade is probably European trade blade. The mark looks like it might be a spider, but I can't identify it.

Regards,
Ed

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Edster ~ Amazing linkage you make to the moon being actually arbine .. in arabic ..40. Which it does seem to be!!(Each moon is identically struck and clearly says 40 in each case) However, the numbering does appear to be highly stylised... The new moon phase is commonly seen as Talismanic in Arabia generally ... but I thought it was a copied in from European moons seen on Toledo and Solingen swords but not as I understand an actual makers mark. It would follow that in the European sense moon strikes were a mark of quality. The 40 configuration is a new one on me! thus very interesting.
The other mark seems to be Peter Cull's Fly Mark which may indicate a European trade blade for Africa.

I include a Forum library reference for European Moons at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...4&page=1&pp=30

See also Fly Markings at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=anthony+North

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Edster]

Salaams, Ibrahiim.

Thanks for referencing the seminal thread started by Jim. It lays the historic basis for later Sudanese smiths to tie, adapt and identify their work with a reference to quality and the Crescent Moon's symbolism in Islam. My guess is the Crescent Moon's design elements when adapted with a little imagination looks like 40 in Arabic numerals. I see nothing significant in the number 40 as such.

Regards,
Ed

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you guys for bringing these in, and we have learned a great deal since these earlier discussions. Ed's fantastic field work in Kassala actually predated the key work by Reed ("A Kaskara from Darfur", JAAS, 1987) as he was there in 1984.
I recall discussions with Ed in 2010, and it was noted that these modern interpretations of the 'dukari' moons did seem to represent the Arabic '4' and '0' =40, however it was never clear why that number was chosen. Perhaps simply because the moon 'device' was seen as those numbers in a 'Rohrshach' kind of perspective.

It seems that the duality of the paired moons were seen from early blade examples from Germany, and the crescent moon, important in native folk religion and traditional symbolism was adopted by native artisans. The smiths were considered to be in league with magic powers, and these symbolized magic imbued in the blades, seemingly mostly from Hausa context.
Clearly these notions and devices were transmitted to the east and into the traditions of the later swordsmiths in Kassala and perhaps other locations.

It is interesting that other images such as squiggle marks, letter P in an arc and others also were stamped in blades in this same paired configuration.
Some of the 'dukari' of later make are badly degenerated from worn stamps and often the stamps are not matched.

With the second sword, the singular stamp in the fuller is what is better known as a 'twig' mark, often seen quite early in Italian blades, in threes or sometimes single (Wallace Coll. Mann, 1962, A576, German 1600) but later adopted in German blades. Apparently these may have also been placed inside 'sickle' marks as well, but these may have been Styrian.
These were at times regarded as 'marca mosca' (=the fly) and this may have caused them to be construed by native artisans as the dexterity of the fly signified that skill in a warrior in combat.

One of these is seen in the blade of the 'Sword of Kanta' ("Nigerian Panoply", Bivar) a Nigerian regalia sword. The image shape also resembles the Berber letter 'yaz' which symbolizes 'free man'.
While none are definitive, these are reasonably plausible ideas for these markings as found in native context and as seen in these examples

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Edster

Hello Miguel,

I think the mark on the top sword is a maker's mark. It's a take off from the Man in the Moon face on some German blades. Various sword smiths in Kassala, Sudan mark their blades with variations circles, curves lines and dots. Your mark might be a rendition of the Arabic number 40 or Arbane. A Kassala smith named Awad Adam had a similar mark but with a complete circle with the arbane inside. A similar close rendition was used by Hassan Shaykh Idris. I could hardly tell the difference, but the smith community was aware of subtle differences. Date would be mid to late 20th Cent.

The second blade is probably European trade blade. The mark looks like it might be a spider, but I can't identify it.

Regards,
Ed

Hello Ed, Thank you very much for your prompt and very interesting reply I never attributed the mark on the top sword as a makers mark I always attributed these marks on Kaskara blades to be Talismanic and I would never have associated them with the number 40, not knowing Arabic, just shows my ignorance of this subject. Did you notice that the moon at the top was thinner than the moon at the bottom? I wonder if two different stamps were used or if the moon stamp comprises of one stamp with the outer ring and one with the face which would lead t the difference if the stamper was careless?
I could not see a spider in the stamp on the second sword until you mentioned it I just don't know what it is. I thought the blade may be a European trade blade as the steel looks to be better quality than the top sword. Thanks again for your reply you've given me something to think about.
Regards
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you guys for bringing these in, and we have learned a great deal since these earlier discussions. Ed's fantastic field work in Kassala actually predated the key work by Reed ("A Kaskara from Darfur", JAAS, 1987) as he was there in 1984.
I recall discussions with Ed in 2010, and it was noted that these modern interpretations of the 'dukari' moons did seem to represent the Arabic '4' and '0' =40, however it was never clear why that number was chosen. Perhaps simply because the moon 'device' was seen as those numbers in a 'Rohrshach' kind of perspective.

It seems that the duality of the paired moons were seen from early blade examples from Germany, and the crescent moon, important in native folk religion and traditional symbolism was adopted by native artisans. The smiths were considered to be in league with magic powers, and these symbolized magic imbued in the blades, seemingly mostly from Hausa context.
Clearly these notions and devices were transmitted to the east and into the traditions of the later swordsmiths in Kassala and perhaps other locations.

It is interesting that other images such as squiggle marks, letter P in an arc and others also were stamped in blades in this same paired configuration.
Some of the 'dukari' of later make are badly degenerated from worn stamps and often the stamps are not matched.

With the second sword, the singular stamp in the fuller is what is better known as a 'twig' mark, often seen quite early in Italian blades, in threes or sometimes single (Wallace Coll. Mann, 1962, A576, German 1600) but later adopted in German blades. Apparently these may have also been placed inside 'sickle' marks as well, but these may have been Styrian.
These were at times regarded as 'marca mosca' (=the fly) and this may have caused them to be construed by native artisans as the dexterity of the fly signified that skill in a warrior in combat.

One of these is seen in the blade of the 'Sword of Kanta' ("Nigerian Panoply", Bivar) a Nigerian regalia sword. The image shape also resembles the Berber letter 'yaz' which symbolizes 'free man'.
While none are definitive, these are reasonably plausible ideas for these markings as found in native context and as seen in these examples

Hello Jim,
Once again blown away by the depth of your knowledge on this subject, the mind boggles although I am not sure from your comment whether you think that the bottom sword may have an African or European blade!
Regards
Miguel

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Edster

Salaams, Ibrahiim.

Thanks for referencing the seminal thread started by Jim. It lays the historic basis for later Sudanese smiths to tie, adapt and identify their work with a reference to quality and the Crescent Moon's symbolism in Islam. My guess is the Crescent Moon's design elements when adapted with a little imagination looks like 40 in Arabic numerals. I see nothing significant in the number 40 as such.

Regards,
Ed

Salaams Ed, The number 40 (arbyn) is not only a magic number/Talisman but comes hyper supercharged as an absolutely powerful indicator since it takes pride of place in the Holy Quran in one special verse extolling the nature of life and how life should be inspired...in which incredibly for a number it is deliberately mentioned three times. I am not a religious scholar and cannot give an exact meaning nor can I offer advice as to the often hidden invocation but here is the passage for reference~
Quote"

Rasool Allah, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behaviour and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behaviour, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise."Unquote.

The point is that Forty is mentioned 3 times and is thus a powerful Talismanic number. I think it could mean that with this sword good deeds may be done according to the script above. The blade is thus protected by the entire verse above by the inclusion of the moon shaped stylistic number forty.

The inclusion of the word forty in stylised arabic secretly inscribed as a Moon defines the Talisman as different from the European Moon which is a mark placed in Toledo and Solingen schools of swordmaking to denote blade quality. The Islamic Moon (although it may have originally been copied onto some African blades and there are many examples where the moon is more rudimentary perhaps done by uneducated African swordmakers or owners) is completely different being purely a Talisman. The Moon in Islamic lands is revered whereas the European Moon carries no religious connotation for Muslims...though there is a religious link in European Moons as a device illustrating anti Papal leanings in some quarters in Europe...and as already described also as a mark of blade excellence...in fact some are illustrated as Funny Face Moons which are hardly likely to be struck by Islamic forge masters..thus there is a distinct difference in the form.

References;
A. http://iainnorman.com/essays/2014/04...frican-swords/
B. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=Tuareg+Swords
C. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=101339
D. #2 Above where it is noted by Ed. Your mark might be a rendition of the Arabic number 40 or Arbane. A Kassala smith named Awad Adam had a similar mark but with a complete circle with the arbane inside. A similar close rendition was used by Hassan Shaykh Idris.
E. Researchers of Taureg Talisman may benefit from reading http://www.academia.edu/7634962/The_...nd_West_Africa

[Edster]

Excellent analysis, Ibrahiim! The combination of a quality and a talismanic effect is a powerful symbol. Thus the individual smith "signed" his work that he incorporated these qualities into the blade. That provides a much deeper meaning.

Miguel, I assume that the various smiths shared available punches to create their own version of the 40 as their individual signature. I've noticed the use of different sized/profiled punches to make the marks and could assume that the blade (or a set of similarly marked blades) was made at different place and/or time. If we had enough data it may be possible to better show blade provenance based on the physical qualities of the different maker's marks we encounter.

Best,
Ed

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ed, The collation of data of that magnitude would be amazing...From my perspective I think the fact that we now have a concrete basis to work on having removed the shroud of secrecy from this puzzle is pretty incredible and stems from your sharp eye seeing the word forty in arabic in a disguised form ...When you look at the way talisman were set up in that region it is amazing that you recognized the word at all...The marabouts (spell makers) were more than capable of selecting about 5 different languages including Hebrew from which to choose a confusing array of indecipherable letters some the wrong way around or deformed.

On follow up I detected about 20 other figure 40 potential Talisman but none seemed to either fit except the most powerful one I gave. There was one other which said Quote" It is said that a person’s intellect attains maturity in forty years, everyone according to his own capacity." Unquote. This may have had something to do with Tuareg men on reaching 40 attaining a sort of pious state ...or Pilgrim attitude...and having their heads shaved but I discounted that in favour of the stronger issue.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Edster]

Awad Adam, a Kassala blade smith, offhandedly described the mark to me as an arbain (40) so I can't claim that insight, but I am glad I wrote it down in my field notes. Every time I think of that time among the sword makers I wish I had asked more questions and taken more photographs. But then again my focus was the "social economics of swordmaking" and only nibbled about the edges of the much larger Kaskara Realm as such.

[Jim McDougall]

Miguel, thank you again for such kind words!
Whatever knowledge I have gained has been mostly through discussions here on these pages and guys like Iain and Ed, who have so openly shared the outstanding findings they have compiled in their studies.

Ibrahiim, again thank you for such tenacious and detailed insight into the aspects which may be involved with these markings. It is compelling indeed that much deeper imbuement than simply the 'magic' implied by use of native artisans in their blades may have been at some point adopted in application of markings.

As Ed has noted, and as discussed some years ago, his discussions with these native artisans at Kassala in 1984 yielded some fascinating information on sword making at that juncture , and their perspectives on many aspects of these blades.

It does seem that European prototype markings found on trade and otherwise acquired blades throughout North African regions did become spuriously applied by native artisans. Further, it seems that certain marks were more favored than others as they became repurposed and adopted into native application, viewed in their own perceptions.

The paired crescent moon markings which became known as 'dukari' and seem to have been associated mostly in Hausa context (Briggs, 1965), appear to have been somewhat faithful to the examples probably seen on some European blades....clearly 'man in the moon' crescents. While unclear why these became so favored and consistently used on native blades, mostly in the Sahara, these marks seem to have remained discernable as crescent moon heads for some time. It appears later that as the die stamps became damaged or worn, the images became less distinguishable.

It would be hard to say just how the 'magic' notion became applied to these kinds of blades, termed 'masri' (Rodd, 1928) meaning 'Egyptian or from the north. Obviously the European use of these moons often was seen as with magic or occult talismanic properties, but how far that carried into native parlance seems quite unclear. Perhaps the native folk religion and the importance of lunar symbolism was at hand.

In later years, into the 20th century, many blades appeared with paired devices in the same blade location and configuration, perhaps intended to convey the same kind of imbuement but with other symbols. These were squiggles, the letter P, and other devices or geometric designs, but many were the former crescent moon, but in highly stylized forms.

It seems that in these later times, with the paired configuration motif placed in same central blade location, there may have been more opportunity to have conceived the notion of using the 'arbain' character in the context of these moons or dukari. Whether this notation of the image or device actually being the arbain is of course open to speculation, but this information is definitely compelling.

In these later times, it does not seem implausible that such religiously oriented symbolism would be used in marking these blades, and we have learned that interpretations of many earlier marks have taken new meanings in native parlance. We know that imbuement in the marking of blades has long been a key factor in many African circumstances, and recalling the use of 'thuluth' motif on the Mahdist blades presents a good example of how such decoration, motif or even simple stamping can be a powerful perception in these weapons.

Miguel, regarding these blades, I would always defer to Iain, however I do not personally believe either of these blades to be European, though the three fullered one does seem older. The second one seems possibly to be of the high grade steel often obtained from the industrial sources there, often said to be railway materials or vehicular springs.

Remember, many of the swords were made in this way for many years during and after the Mahdist period, well into 20th c.

[Miguel]

Thank you Ed, Ibrahiim and Jim for sharing your knowledge and time. I, for one, have found it fascinating and very informative. Thank you again.
Regards
Miguel