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#1 |
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Location: Singapore
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Hi all,
I would like to know what type of hilt material is this? ![]() From the form, where does it originated? Other information is also welcomed. [ link ] Last edited by Alam Shah; 20th May 2008 at 09:48 AM. Reason: add photos |
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#2 |
Keris forum moderator
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Location: Nova Scotia
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Hi Shahrial. Nice hilt. Sure looks like sea ivory to me. Dugong maybe. Is there some reason that you think it is something other than that?
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#3 |
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I've got a number of keris with Bugis style hilts that look like they have the same material as this one. I've always thought it was elephant ivory. I just went and had a look at them under magnification , and there is a distinct grain, and some superficial cracking as we could expect with elephant ivory. I'm not taking a position and saying this definitely is elephant ivory, but it sure looks like it to me, and I have some difficulty in imagining what other source could provide material of sufficient size and shape to allow this style of hilt to be produced.
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#4 | |
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#5 |
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Dear Alam Shah,
it is certainly not elefant ivory. Elefant ivory has very distinct lines that at one point ore another are crossing each other forming little squares. On the back of your hilt there is a dark line/crack with small dark dots along it. I have been told that this line is specific for hippo ivory. I have seen rencongs with hilts showing this line. Best regards, Willem |
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#6 |
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Yes, it is true that elephant ivory will often show a cross-hatch grain, but it cannot be taken for granted that because ivory does not show a cross-hatch, it is not elephant ivory.
I have several hundred pieces of ivory, about 100 or so are ivory keris handles, the rest are netsukes, small ivory figurines, and other little bits and pieces. Some that is definitely elephant ivory does not show a cross-hatch grain. The four bent over handles that I have posted pics of do have a grain, but it is not cross-hatch. I've always thought of these handles as elephant ivory, but I'd be the first to admit they might not be. However, if they are not, what other source, readily available to craftsmen in SE Asia, could provide material of sufficient size to allow handles like this to be produced? Whales teeth wouldn't do it. Walrus? Dugong? Boar? What? These are pretty serious lumps of ivory. The upright handle is definitely elephant ivory, I've put this up for comparison. |
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#7 | |
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![]() Quote:
A beautiful display of ivory hilts. ![]() Others are... hmmm... ![]() I'm pretty much interested in all 4 bent hilts, including their hilt cups... especially the 2nd piece. But unfortunately, I could only dream of it... and drool. ![]() Last edited by Alam Shah; 21st May 2008 at 01:49 AM. |
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#8 | |
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'Some' info I found on the web.
Some accompanying pictures would be nice / any volunteers ![]() Quote:
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#9 |
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Also I have an handle made by a strange material
![]() It seems like bone (horn?) but in the middle of the hilt there are strange circles more dark ![]() Maybe some collector can help me... ![]() Also i think that the hilts showed are Hippo tooth (while the withe one is elephant) |
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#10 |
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Here is an interesting website comparing ivories and how to ID them:
http://www.australiangemmologist.com...areivories.pdf |
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#11 |
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That's a good article, David.
My big problem with what this material in my hilts could be is their size:- they're big lumps of ivory. Reading all the info, yeah, I agree, it could be hippo ivory, but if that's the case there was a very robust trade between some parts of Africa, and SE Asia, during at least the 19th century. I'll see if can get a pic that will show the grain in these hilts of mine. I know this thread started with question from Shahrial, but his hilt seems to be the same material as the ones I've shown, and I've seen a lot of this type of hilt from the same material. Thanks for your comments Shahrial. Yeah, its a bit hard to find this sort of thing these days. The ones I've shown, plus a few I have not shown, all came from a dealer in Jogja about 35 years ago---you just don't see this sort of thing now. |
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#12 | |
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David, your link is a good resource too. ![]() I think we may find this helpful, as well. [ link ] ![]() |
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#13 |
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Here are some close-ups of the hilts posted above.
I think you should be able to see the grain. |
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#14 |
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This is walrus ivory.
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#15 |
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This is whales tooth.
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#16 |
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In mine opinion this is Hippopotamus Ivory recognizeble on the long nerve lines.
G.J. |
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#17 |
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I vote hippo tusk ivory. I have a badek at home with the same material will see if I can take a good pic of it later this week. Look at the top left hand side the dagger I spoke of is there and you can make out the tell tale line in the hilt.
Lew Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 3rd June 2008 at 06:35 PM. |
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#18 |
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Alam Shah, your hilt is buffed mirror shine and looks almost like a glass
![]() I think it is hippo tusk too. |
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#19 |
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I've also been told to differentiate hippo ivory from elephant ivory by their heavier weight, non-criss crossed grains and the 'stitch-line' down the length of the ivory. However, I've not come across pictures from reputable books which show those exactly. I guess maybe I haven't looked hard enough.
![]() On a side-topic, Lew's picture showing the various daggers has convinced me permanently that despite not specializing in collecting in any specific dagger types, he has impeccable tastes and eagle eyes to pick out the really good specimens... ![]() |
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#20 |
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I have seen hippo tusks for sale on the internet that are 17 inches long.
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