Unusual Philippine Serpentine Sword ?

drac2k · 20th November 2016, 10:05 PM

When I first bid on this sword, I thought someone had boxed the end and I would re-tip it, but now I'm not sure.The tip is not blunt, but it has a sharp,tapered edge.It is a heavy, sharp,26" long blade(1.75" wide at the base).The handle measures 5.5" long and is made of horn.It certainly feels like it would be very effective for slashing or chopping.
My question is has anyone seen a philippine sword with a similar end.Could the end have been reconfigured to become a lodge sword, or could it be like the German "Sword of Justice," with a boxed end , a symbol of status and justice ?
Any comments would be appreciated

Ian · 21st November 2016, 01:17 AM

Hello Drac:

The full tang hilt treatment looks Luzon in origin, but the shape of the hilt and ferrule are atypical. The small cross guard looks a little like Ilocano work (N. Luzon) but hard to say from the pics.

The blade is not something I recall seeing before. This looks like a one off, custom made piece--or perhaps from a blade with a broken tip. A "flambé" style of sword is unusual among the Tagalog people, but there are a number of examples to show that it is not rare.

I know of no particular significance among the Filipino cultures for a blunt ended sword such as this one.

Ian.

drac2k · 21st November 2016, 01:29 AM

Thanks for your insights.My dilemma is should I change the tip to the way I think it should look(in the fashion of a sundang), or leave it as it is; as you say, I am not aware of any Philippine swords in this fashion either.The tip, while not pointed,has an edge sharp enough to cut.

Rick · 21st November 2016, 02:20 AM

Has anyone considered that the tip may have been reconfigured to suit local colonial ordinances.

drac2k · 21st November 2016, 04:25 AM

Interesting point, but if that were the case, then shouldn't we have seen other examples ?

Ian · 21st November 2016, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Thanks for your insights.My dilemma is should I change the tip to the way I think it should look(in the fashion of a sundang), or leave it as it is; as you say, I am not aware of any Philippine swords in this fashion either.The tip, while not pointed,has an edge sharp enough to cut.

This is a Tagalog sword, so strictly speaking it is not a sundang. Personally, I think it was made this way (for whatever reason), and you should leave it as it is.

As to Rick's question, I don't think the tip was altered to meet some regulation or decree. This sword post dates the late Spanish colonial period when such regulations were in place. I think it was made post WWII based on the ferrule and hilt, perhaps for a GI stationed in Central Luzon.

Ian.

drac2k · 21st November 2016, 02:09 PM

Thanks for the input Ian, I will not alter it, however, I don't think that it is WW2 or later(I certainly could be wrong).The sword is not a "souvenir type fabrication" as it isn't particularly fancy or gaudy, or dated or named.It is too long and heavy to be used for anything other than fighting; it is very well balanced and made.The serpentine curvature isn't sharp and cut out, but appears to be forged.The ferrule and the guard are iron, not brass or aluminum which are much easier to work with and usually found on souvenir pieces. When I got this item it was dark with rust and as I was cleaning, I could see traces of an old museum number(or so I thought).
I do agree that some U.S. soldier probably brought it back.

My best argument is that it is too ugly for anybody but a collector to want.

Battara · 21st November 2016, 04:24 PM

I agree totally with Ian. In fact, I would even say that a wavy blade itself is not typical for a Tagalog blade. Yet I can't consider this Ilokano either since the midridge doesn't follow the waves.

And then there is the old blunt end - atypical of anyone except a janap in the Moro lands.

VANDOO · 21st November 2016, 05:31 PM

THE BLADE TIP IS SIMILAR IN SHAPE TO SOME CHINESE JIAN I HAVE SEEN. SO PERHAPS THERE IS CHINESE INFLUENCE AS I AM SURE THE CHINESE WERE LIKELY TO HAVE BEEN PRESENT AS THEY WERE WIDE SPREAD IN THEIR TRADING. JUST A THOUGHT. IT IS UNIQUE AND I WOULD LEAVE IT AS IS AND PERHAPS AN EXPLANATION WILL COME IN THE FUTURE.

drac2k · 21st November 2016, 10:21 PM

I don't think it is a janap as I see these referenced as short working bolos ; also let me reiterate that the tip is not blunt, but that it is quite sharp even though it is not "pointy."
VANDOO's comments on the similarity of some jian tips strikes a responsive cord with me .

Battara · 23rd November 2016, 12:33 AM

Just to clarify I didn't say it was a janap but that it has a squared off end similar to a janap.

20th November 2016, 10:05 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Unusual Philippine Serpentine Sword ? When I first bid on this sword, I thought someone had boxed the end and I would re-tip it, but now I'm not sure.The tip is not blunt, but it has a sharp,tapered edge.It is a heavy, sharp,26" long blade(1.75" wide at the base).The handle measures 5.5" long and is made of horn.It certainly feels like it would be very effective for slashing or chopping. My question is has anyone seen a philippine sword with a similar end.Could the end have been reconfigured to become a lodge sword, or could it be like the German "Sword of Justice," with a boxed end , a symbol of status and justice ? Any comments would be appreciated Attached Images

21st November 2016, 01:17 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	Hello Drac: The full tang hilt treatment looks Luzon in origin, but the shape of the hilt and ferrule are atypical. The small cross guard looks a little like Ilocano work (N. Luzon) but hard to say from the pics. The blade is not something I recall seeing before. This looks like a one off, custom made piece--or perhaps from a blade with a broken tip. A "flambé" style of sword is unusual among the Tagalog people, but there are a number of examples to show that it is not rare. I know of no particular significance among the Filipino cultures for a blunt ended sword such as this one. Ian.

21st November 2016, 01:29 AM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Thanks for your insights.My dilemma is should I change the tip to the way I think it should look(in the fashion of a sundang), or leave it as it is; as you say, I am not aware of any Philippine swords in this fashion either.The tip, while not pointed,has an edge sharp enough to cut.

21st November 2016, 02:20 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Has anyone considered that the tip may have been reconfigured to suit local colonial ordinances.

21st November 2016, 04:25 AM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Interesting point, but if that were the case, then shouldn't we have seen other examples ?

21st November 2016, 02:09 PM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Thanks for the input Ian, I will not alter it, however, I don't think that it is WW2 or later(I certainly could be wrong).The sword is not a "souvenir type fabrication" as it isn't particularly fancy or gaudy, or dated or named.It is too long and heavy to be used for anything other than fighting; it is very well balanced and made.The serpentine curvature isn't sharp and cut out, but appears to be forged.The ferrule and the guard are iron, not brass or aluminum which are much easier to work with and usually found on souvenir pieces. When I got this item it was dark with rust and as I was cleaning, I could see traces of an old museum number(or so I thought). I do agree that some U.S. soldier probably brought it back. My best argument is that it is too ugly for anybody but a collector to want.

21st November 2016, 04:24 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I agree totally with Ian. In fact, I would even say that a wavy blade itself is not typical for a Tagalog blade. Yet I can't consider this Ilokano either since the midridge doesn't follow the waves. And then there is the old blunt end - atypical of anyone except a janap in the Moro lands.

21st November 2016, 05:31 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE BLADE TIP IS SIMILAR IN SHAPE TO SOME CHINESE JIAN I HAVE SEEN. SO PERHAPS THERE IS CHINESE INFLUENCE AS I AM SURE THE CHINESE WERE LIKELY TO HAVE BEEN PRESENT AS THEY WERE WIDE SPREAD IN THEIR TRADING. JUST A THOUGHT. IT IS UNIQUE AND I WOULD LEAVE IT AS IS AND PERHAPS AN EXPLANATION WILL COME IN THE FUTURE.

21st November 2016, 10:21 PM	#10
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	I don't think it is a janap as I see these referenced as short working bolos ; also let me reiterate that the tip is not blunt, but that it is quite sharp even though it is not "pointy." VANDOO's comments on the similarity of some jian tips strikes a responsive cord with me .

23rd November 2016, 12:33 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Just to clarify I didn't say it was a janap but that it has a squared off end similar to a janap.