A Poleaxe like Halberd

CSinTX · 1st July 2015, 04:21 PM

This halberd recently made its way to my collection. It was originally located in a Chateaux near Versailles in really rough condition. The metal was cleaned and haft replaced. As you can see, the blade is shaped like a traditional poleaxe. It is quite heavy compared to most halberds. The languets seem to be much larger than normal and there is heavy reinforcement where they meet the head. I was thinking it might be circa 1475? Does anyone know of other similar examples? Thoughts on origin? Could it be 15th Century? As always, all comments are welcome.

Marcus den toom · 1st July 2015, 09:03 PM

Hi,

I am no expert on halbeards, but i am quit sure it is more likely a late 16th century version than a 15th century version seeing as the shape does not match any i have seen in the early manuscripts i useally study.

Please, do you also have pictures of this piece before it was cleaned?
It is of course once own choice, but cleaning the steel and replacing the haft just made this piece so much less valuable, historically speaking

fernando · 2nd July 2015, 12:31 AM

Is the posted halberd so different from examples in 'German Landsknechts and their Captain' depicted in 'Kriesgordnung' by Hans Döring in 1545 ?

.

A Senefelder · 2nd July 2015, 02:57 AM

I cannot tell from the pictures. Is the point of the fluke ( the back spike of opposite the axe blade ) thickened at it's tip?

Timo Nieminen · 2nd July 2015, 03:14 AM

Looks mid-16th century. Though at least some of the elements of this style are seen on blades about 1500, most examples I've seen are mid-16th, and some are later. I don't think it could be as early as 1475.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSinTX

It is quite heavy compared to most halberds.

How heavy is it?

ulfberth · 2nd July 2015, 08:52 AM

Hi Casey,

Like Fernando says it could very well be a landsknecht halberd.
Here is one from the Wallace museum, and it has almost the same patina as the one you have, with the description:
Halberd Germany
early 16th century
Iron or steel and copper alloy
Length: 44.6 cm, blade and socket
Weight: 1.22 kg
Maker's mark Stamped

kind regards
Ulfberth

CSinTX · 2nd July 2015, 05:01 PM

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I tried updating the images with better ones and it let me delete the old ones but not add the new ones. I will add them at the bottom of this post.

I did locate a poleaxe in the Wallace collection with a similar blade but of course it has the usual hammer instead of spike on the rear that is typical of poleaxes. http://wallacelive.wallacecollection...ype=detailView

Marcus, I do not have images of it before it was cleaned. It is my understanding that the haft was in tattered pieces. I understand the hesitation to restore such old items but sometimes I think it is warranted depending on condition.

Fernando, thank you for the great image. I guess to me, the difference is the curved blade. The halberds in your posted image have the more common straight line blade that angles forward. I do have another halberd that I got along with this one that is very similar to the ones in this image. I will try to get it posted soon. Interestingly, when you google search “Landsknecht halberd” many images come up of Landsknecht fighters with curved blade halberds so perhaps it would be a Landsknecht item. See image below-

Senefelder, the tip of the rear spike is slightly thick. I do not think most halberds of this time and design had the really thick “beak like” rounded rear spike found on the more slender Italian or later style halberds. The entire piece is thick and heavy duty likely reducing the need for it.

Timo, I will have to try to weigh it but with a replacement haft any number may be somewhat insignificant. I just know that in the hand it feels much heavier than the other examples I have studied.

Dirk, thank you for the fine example from the Wallace collection. It seems to bridge the gap between my piece and what we normally think of as a poleaxe.

fernando · 2nd July 2015, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSinTX

... Fernando, thank you for the great image. I guess to me, the difference is the curved blade. The halberds in your posted image have the more common straight line blade that angles forward. I do have another halberd that I got along with this one that is very similar to the ones in this image. I will try to get it posted soon. Interestingly, when you google search “Landsknecht halberd” many images come up of Landsknecht fighters with curved blade halberds so perhaps it would be a Landsknecht item...

Still the straight edged and slightly inclined blade bears a position in the Landsknecht halberds records.
See below a publication by George Snook, depicting the photo of a halberd which he assumes as being a Landsknecht example.

.

CSinTX · 3rd September 2020, 05:23 AM

I recently lucked in to IDing this mark from a similar example and wanted to add the info to the record here.

"In the period from 1586 to 1591, Claus Lerchli from Kempten supplied Zurich with halberds, murder axes and bill hooks."

fernando · 3rd September 2020, 02:12 PM

Good find, Casey

.

ulfberth · 3rd September 2020, 04:45 PM

good find indeed , halberd markings always are difficult , and this one remained unknown for some time untill now ....

BUCC_Guy · 3rd September 2020, 10:56 PM

An excellent looking piece. Certainly worth the clean-up.

M ELEY · 7th September 2020, 01:51 AM

Awesome to finally pinpoint any smith's marking or arsenal stamp on ANY piece! Helps to build the historic record and fill in the puzzle pieces! Good work, Casey!

1st July 2015, 04:21 PM	#1
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	A Poleaxe like Halberd This halberd recently made its way to my collection. It was originally located in a Chateaux near Versailles in really rough condition. The metal was cleaned and haft replaced. As you can see, the blade is shaped like a traditional poleaxe. It is quite heavy compared to most halberds. The languets seem to be much larger than normal and there is heavy reinforcement where they meet the head. I was thinking it might be circa 1475? Does anyone know of other similar examples? Thoughts on origin? Could it be 15th Century? As always, all comments are welcome. Attached Images Last edited by CSinTX; 2nd July 2015 at 04:04 PM.

2nd July 2015, 12:31 AM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Is the posted halberd so different from examples in 'German Landsknechts and their Captain' depicted in 'Kriesgordnung' by Hans Döring in 1545 ? . Attached Images

2nd July 2015, 08:52 AM	#6
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	Hi Casey, Like Fernando says it could very well be a landsknecht halberd. Here is one from the Wallace museum, and it has almost the same patina as the one you have, with the description: Halberd Germany early 16th century Iron or steel and copper alloy Length: 44.6 cm, blade and socket Weight: 1.22 kg Maker's mark Stamped kind regards Ulfberth Attached Images

2nd July 2015, 05:01 PM	#7
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I tried updating the images with better ones and it let me delete the old ones but not add the new ones. I will add them at the bottom of this post. I did locate a poleaxe in the Wallace collection with a similar blade but of course it has the usual hammer instead of spike on the rear that is typical of poleaxes. http://wallacelive.wallacecollection...ype=detailView Marcus, I do not have images of it before it was cleaned. It is my understanding that the haft was in tattered pieces. I understand the hesitation to restore such old items but sometimes I think it is warranted depending on condition. Fernando, thank you for the great image. I guess to me, the difference is the curved blade. The halberds in your posted image have the more common straight line blade that angles forward. I do have another halberd that I got along with this one that is very similar to the ones in this image. I will try to get it posted soon. Interestingly, when you google search “Landsknecht halberd” many images come up of Landsknecht fighters with curved blade halberds so perhaps it would be a Landsknecht item. See image below- Senefelder, the tip of the rear spike is slightly thick. I do not think most halberds of this time and design had the really thick “beak like” rounded rear spike found on the more slender Italian or later style halberds. The entire piece is thick and heavy duty likely reducing the need for it. Timo, I will have to try to weigh it but with a replacement haft any number may be somewhat insignificant. I just know that in the hand it feels much heavier than the other examples I have studied. Dirk, thank you for the fine example from the Wallace collection. It seems to bridge the gap between my piece and what we normally think of as a poleaxe. Attached Images

3rd September 2020, 05:23 AM	#9
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	I recently lucked in to IDing this mark from a similar example and wanted to add the info to the record here. "In the period from 1586 to 1591, Claus Lerchli from Kempten supplied Zurich with halberds, murder axes and bill hooks." Attached Images

1st July 2015, 09:03 PM	#2
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	Hi, I am no expert on halbeards, but i am quit sure it is more likely a late 16th century version than a 15th century version seeing as the shape does not match any i have seen in the early manuscripts i useally study. Please, do you also have pictures of this piece before it was cleaned? It is of course once own choice, but cleaning the steel and replacing the haft just made this piece so much less valuable, historically speaking

2nd July 2015, 02:57 AM	#4
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	I cannot tell from the pictures. Is the point of the fluke ( the back spike of opposite the axe blade ) thickened at it's tip?

3rd September 2020, 02:12 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Good find, Casey .

3rd September 2020, 04:45 PM	#11
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	good find indeed , halberd markings always are difficult , and this one remained unknown for some time untill now ....

3rd September 2020, 10:56 PM	#12
BUCC_Guy Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 52	An excellent looking piece. Certainly worth the clean-up.

7th September 2020, 01:51 AM	#13
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,094	Awesome to finally pinpoint any smith's marking or arsenal stamp on ANY piece! Helps to build the historic record and fill in the puzzle pieces! Good work, Casey!