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#1 |
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Quite a bizarre specimen.
The seller only had it with him for a couple days ... no time to identify it. Th blade is 21,5 cms ( 8 1/2" ) long. Grip and scabbard are cast brass ... seller mentioned lost wax?! There is an eliptical window in the scabbard ... i ignore the purpose. In its back there is a frog button. In the front, there is an arch loop. The blade looks used and some old. It has equal decoration/marks on both sides. Somebody help me to identify this piece ? Thanks in advance fernando |
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#2 |
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Hello Fernando, seems some kind of variation of the Adamaua - Mandara daggers (North Cameroon).
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#3 |
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Thanks a lot Flavio.
Quite close. I will try and check further into that. |
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#4 |
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Hi Fernando,
I'm no expert ![]() ![]() |
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#5 |
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Thanks David,
I was actually tending to beleive Flavio's sugestion was about right, specially because of those scabbard rounded tips. I just can't see in the pictures if those scabbards are perforated, which would better define the similarity with my piece. I also have "Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika" in a CD, but i can't see any better. My idea is that the "window" in the scabbard is vital detail for identification, as also the blade marks. I wonder which is the scabbard face side, and if that button is really a frog holder. This way the window would be in the back side, against the body. However with that brass arch loop, would be uncomfortable, whatever purpose it would be for. I wonder if Tim Simons has something like this in his collection ... or anybody else, anyway. I would love to know a few things about this item. Could all the details be just fantasy or functional parts. I will keep looking, until further news come in. Thanks again fernando |
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#6 |
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Hello Fernando, at least number 132 of "Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika" has oper work on the scabbard. Note also the particular on number 133 scabbard identical to yours.
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#7 |
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Thanks a lot for opening my eyes, Flavio.
My CD images were copied into a small format in my computer files. Now i can see the open work, the identical decoration details and even those arch loops ... i don't know how to call them better. No doubt these pieces are familiar to mine, the origin definitely being the same. I see that you picked the origin Adamaua-Mandara from a different book, the one of picture number 40, right. Which is this book? Again many thanks. BTW Do you think this piece could be as old as 19th century ? Last edited by fernando; 8th April 2007 at 07:59 PM. |
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#8 |
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Hi Fernando the book is Afrikanische Waffen (Fischer - Zirngibl). About the age: the decoration on the scabbard seems nice done even if the brass seems quite thin around the open work. More the different hilt could simply a variation or a more recent work. The pieces for references were collected all in the early 900 so yours could be around 1950, but it's just a guess
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#9 |
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Thanks a lot, Flavio
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#10 |
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Hi Fernando,
the amount of decoration on the sheath...opposite to the 'window' side...suggests that this would be the facing side. So the question is......why is there a window ![]() It would make sense that you could make a weapon look larger (and therefor have more status) by putting a knife/sword in a scabbard that was too big. If this was a common practice perhaps the 'window' was a way of showing that the scabbard was 'full of blade'......the only thing is ...the window would have to be on the facing side...so that it could be seen. ![]() If I am right and the blade window faces the body, then, perhaps, there could be some cultural/religious reason.....I can see no practical reason to leave part of the blade exposed to the 'elements' (humidity etc) |
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#11 |
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Just found these images of two old shields attributed to the Mandara...
with similar designs to the sheath... http://www.afrikana.de/index.php?9&b...t_products=388 http://www.afrikana.de/index.php?9&b...t_products=544 |
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#12 |
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Hi all, I can't say nothing about the open work on the scabbard, but on the book "De fer et de fiertè" the author (Jan Elsen) says that the groups of the North Cameroon are master of the technique of lost wax and that the brass sheathed knives resemble the ones in wood and leather. So maybe the brass versions are used for ceremonial purpose?? (like, in reverse view, like the ikulas and the ilwoons in wooden that are used among the Kuba - Congo - in some periods)
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#13 |
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Hi David
I am glad for your mutual interest in trying to find how things make sense. I was precisely going to ( somehow ) sugest what Flavio has just brought up in a clear manner. These pieces not be for hanging against the body, weapon like, but for decoration or cerimonial purposes, or even for trading as money or the like. In other words, to be held in hands, with a double face look, thus with trimings in both sides. This not excluding that the "window" was to show off the contents, as you sugested, to proof that the thing had some added value. In above example 133 the blade is much much smaller than the sheath. BTW, I must say that in my piece, the scabbard collar doesn't fit into the handle slot as a functional weapon should do. Here's another example i found in the Net, a bit more modern, but of a similar situation ... i still think my piece is a bit older ![]() http://www.hermann-historica.de/aukt...db=kat48_1.txt Thank you so much for the precious input, Flavio. fernando Last edited by fernando; 10th April 2007 at 09:35 PM. |
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#14 |
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Hi Fernando, I'm happy to be of some help
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