Miquelet Lock, 1715 Spanish Fleet Wreck

dana_w · 12th June 2014, 07:51 PM

On July 30 1715, A large fleet of Spanish galleons encountered a hurricane off the Florida coast near Sebastian inlet. An almost unimaginable treasure and more than a thousand lives were lost in the storm.

Miqueleter recently sent me photos and drawings of some artifacts recovered from the site of the wreck in the 70s and 90s. This wonderful photo of an encrusted Miquelet Lock was included.

The back of the photo is labeled:

#7367L
S-26
85L-017
Recovered in 1990 from 1715 Fleet Wreck

dana_w · 13th June 2014, 04:30 PM

This was scanned from a xerox copy of a photograph. The copy has some notes from James Levy who was a conservator for the Florida Bureau of Archaeological at the time.

"This is a very ornate piece from the 1715 Plate Fleet. Lots of brass overlay and the stock carved all over. Brass trigger guard. PRATS was engraved on the barrel from Ripoll Spain."

dana_w · 13th June 2014, 05:26 PM

The other side of the stock shown above.

dana_w · 15th June 2014, 05:32 PM

Friday I had a chance to speak with James Levy. He was the original source of these images. He sent them to Miqueleter (along with others) in the late 90s. At the time he was the conservator for the Florida Bureau of Archaeological.

Mr. Levy tells me that the image of the lock is actually a casting that he made. He also says the stock is now on display at Museum of Florida History in Tallahassee Florida.

These items fascinate me, especially the brass decoration on the stock. I plan to try and acquire better photographs when I next visit Tallahassee.

Is anyone interested in seeing some of the other copies Miqueleter sent from the 1715 fleet wreck? If so, I'll be glad to post them.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 15th June 2014, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w

Friday I had a chance to speak with James Levy. He was the original source of these images. He sent them to Miqueleter (along with others) in the late 90s. At the time he was the conservator for the Florida Bureau of Archaeological.

Mr. Levy tells me that the image of the lock is actually a casting that he made. He also says the stock is now on display at Museum of Florida History in Tallahassee Florida.

These items fascinate me, especially the brass decoration on the stock. I plan to try and acquire better photographs when I next visit Tallahassee.

Is anyone interested in seeing some of the other copies Miqueleter sent from the 1715 fleet wreck? If so, I'll be glad to post them.

Salaams dana_w ~ This is a fine research subject... Stunning pictures and excellent detail. I would be delighted to see more pictures etc. Thank you for adding an amazing thread.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Matchlock · 15th June 2014, 08:03 PM

Hi Dana,

First of all I wish to say thanks for posting those images, even though the scans of the xeroxed copies are, as stated by you, not the best.

What we see here is obviously the sad remains of what used to be a long and heavy Spanish miquelet-lock musket of arsenal/'military' type. Both the shape of the butt stock which originally terminated in a trapezoid form, also called a fishtail, and the style of the bone inlays clearly indicate the Spanish-originated style of what was to become the characteristic 'musket' stock by the mid-16th century.
The flower-like shaped engraved bone rondels reflect the Late Renaissance style prevailing all over the European continent from ca. 1590 till 1620, thus allowing to assign a close date line of ca. 1590-1600 to the gun - which is both very early and quite important to research on firearms of that period in general. The scrolled style of the high-relief wood carvings in the area of the molded thumb recess, on the comb of the butt pointing towards the shoulder of the musketeer aiming the piece, is typical of the decoration of top-quality German muskets manufactured by many workshops in ca. 1600.

For more information, please see my new thread:

One more note of important historical interest, concerning the lock:

The piece of stone wrapped in a strip of lead (German: Bleifutter) clamped in the jaws of the cock, used to strike the steel, producing the red hot sparks that actually ignited the primining powder on the pan, is pyrite - not flint as one might expect!

This fact additionally backs up the time line which I assigned to that fragment of a Spanish miquelet lock musket of ca. 1600, as it proves the historic closeness to the wheellock ignition era, which also employed pyrites, at least from the very beginnings until the outbreak of the Thirty Years War (1618-1648). To my knowledge, the oldest recorded wheellock mechanisms of 'military'/arsenal type, excavated and salvaged with their original flints still clamped between the jaws, and almost always in lead wrappings, can be dated to the period of ca. post-1630.

In the famous Tøjhusmuseet in Copenhagen/Denmark, I researched and photgrapically documented several detached wheellock mechanisms, preserved in virtually 'untouched' primeval 'as they were left' condition since they were laid aside some 400 years ago! On all these instances of detached wheellock mechanisms, the pyrites are wrapped in lead strips, now heavily oxidized and discolored to a pale gray.

I will post my photos soon.

Best,
Michael
(Michael Trömner)

A very large number of recorded gun makers marks, comprising barrel smiths, lock makers and gun stockers, all point out the both important and well-known area around the town of Suhl, Thuringia, Germany. Today, there are still thousands of original and completely preserved muskets, which are on exhibition almost all over the Western World. There are hundreds of museums and private collections holding those muskets, including an extremely fine piece dated 1602 on the hexagonal (!) barrel, mounted on the stock with a central top edge. In weaponry, the German term of this extremely rare sort of finest made barrels is Schweinsrückenlauf (a barrel shaped like a hog's back).

This musket dated 1602 ranges among a very small group of the world's topmost pieces of the most refined sort of 'military' long guns produced and marked by Suhl workshops from ca. 1590 to 1610, which means ca. 1600. It is a relatively large number of muskets mounted with barrels struck with an unusually comprehensive pack of historically recorded facts, allowing experts to assign that close date line to this limited group.

Those facts quite often comprise:

I. Barrel marks

I.1 Marks primarily struck:
in the read hot iron, and by the barrel smiths - before the barrels were sent to be proofed

They are easily identifiable by being clearly struck deepest, meaning struck in the iron powerfully while still in red heat; many of both the initials and symbols of these stamps have been identified and assigned to Suhl workshops; a name and symbol often identified is KLETT, meaning burdock

I.2 Marks secondarily struck:

This group mainly comprises the marks of dealers, mostly also identifiable, and very often belonging to members of the well-known KLETT family, too

I.3 The Suhl proof marks

SVL and the hen, the symbol of the Countship (German: Grafschaft) of Suhl, Thuringia, Eastern Germany

I.4 Dates struck

Quite often, barrels of such high-quality arsenal muskets are dated, meaning that a date was secondarily struck, and after the barrels had both passed the proof and had been polished/finished on the upper side not covered by the stock;
the underside of barrels mounted on 'military'/arsenal muskets was always left in the rough, and blued

Jim McDougall · 16th June 2014, 04:34 AM

Michael, I am truly at a loss for words at these magnificent entries of yours!!!
I have the greatest admiration for true arms research and writing, and you are the master of all!!!!! It is so good to see you blazing away here with ALL barrels!!!!
My deepest thanks,
Jim

dana_w · 16th June 2014, 10:14 PM

The notes on this photo of a stock say "1715 Plate Fleet, lots of silver wire inlay and overlay".

The other 1715 images are not-to-scale drawings, but there is a photo labeled "From one of the Tallahassee Mission Sites ca 1656 - 1704" in the mix. A miquelet-lock and main spring are easily recognizable.

Matchlock · 16th June 2014, 11:29 PM

Hi Jim,

Brilliantly worded as ever!

Being complimented like this by the Godfather of edged weapons, who is a close friend of mine, really means a lot to me - thank you so much!

The editing timeline of only 24 hours granted at present is just insufficient for threads as comprehensive and complex as this one. I also intended to attach many important images, but alas ...
I really do wish that at least one of the moderaters would do some editing for me, as requested several times; sadly, this does not seem to work out.

Thus, I will resort to writing articles in WORD and only post them when painstakingly edited.

Nevertheless, that Suhl marks thread I started yesterday lacks any kind of research ever done on the topic by other authors, and I will add immense photo material in the near future, all taken in more than 35 years of my life, and in important museums.

With both my heartfelt thanks and all my very best wishes for you out there on Route 66,
Michael

P.S. Seen any cute squirrel lately? If you do, do sent a photo of the furry little guy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Michael, I am truly at a loss for words at these magnificent entries of yours!!!
I have the greatest admiration for true arms research and writing, and you are the master of all!!!!! It is so good to see you blazing away here with ALL barrels!!!!
My deepest thanks,
Jim

12th June 2014, 07:51 PM	#1
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Miquelet Lock, 1715 Spanish Fleet Wreck On July 30 1715, A large fleet of Spanish galleons encountered a hurricane off the Florida coast near Sebastian inlet. An almost unimaginable treasure and more than a thousand lives were lost in the storm. Miqueleter recently sent me photos and drawings of some artifacts recovered from the site of the wreck in the 70s and 90s. This wonderful photo of an encrusted Miquelet Lock was included. The back of the photo is labeled: #7367L S-26 85L-017 Recovered in 1990 from 1715 Fleet Wreck Attached Images Last edited by dana_w; 13th June 2014 at 01:59 PM.

13th June 2014, 04:30 PM	#2
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	This was scanned from a xerox copy of a photograph. The copy has some notes from James Levy who was a conservator for the Florida Bureau of Archaeological at the time. "This is a very ornate piece from the 1715 Plate Fleet. Lots of brass overlay and the stock carved all over. Brass trigger guard. PRATS was engraved on the barrel from Ripoll Spain." Attached Images Last edited by dana_w; 14th June 2014 at 02:33 PM.

13th June 2014, 05:26 PM	#3
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	The other side of the stock shown above. Attached Images

15th June 2014, 08:03 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Dana, First of all I wish to say thanks for posting those images, even though the scans of the xeroxed copies are, as stated by you, not the best. What we see here is obviously the sad remains of what used to be a long and heavy Spanish miquelet-lock musket of arsenal/'military' type. Both the shape of the butt stock which originally terminated in a trapezoid form, also called a fishtail, and the style of the bone inlays clearly indicate the Spanish-originated style of what was to become the characteristic 'musket' stock by the mid-16th century. The flower-like shaped engraved bone rondels reflect the Late Renaissance style prevailing all over the European continent from ca. 1590 till 1620, thus allowing to assign a close date line of ca. 1590-1600 to the gun - which is both very early and quite important to research on firearms of that period in general. The scrolled style of the high-relief wood carvings in the area of the molded thumb recess, on the comb of the butt pointing towards the shoulder of the musketeer aiming the piece, is typical of the decoration of top-quality German muskets manufactured by many workshops in ca. 1600. For more information, please see my new thread: One more note of important historical interest, concerning the lock: The piece of stone wrapped in a strip of lead (German: Bleifutter) clamped in the jaws of the cock, used to strike the steel, producing the red hot sparks that actually ignited the primining powder on the pan, is pyrite - not flint as one might expect! This fact additionally backs up the time line which I assigned to that fragment of a Spanish miquelet lock musket of ca. 1600, as it proves the historic closeness to the wheellock ignition era, which also employed pyrites, at least from the very beginnings until the outbreak of the Thirty Years War (1618-1648). To my knowledge, the oldest recorded wheellock mechanisms of 'military'/arsenal type, excavated and salvaged with their original flints still clamped between the jaws, and almost always in lead wrappings, can be dated to the period of ca. post-1630. In the famous Tøjhusmuseet in Copenhagen/Denmark, I researched and photgrapically documented several detached wheellock mechanisms, preserved in virtually 'untouched' primeval 'as they were left' condition since they were laid aside some 400 years ago! On all these instances of detached wheellock mechanisms, the pyrites are wrapped in lead strips, now heavily oxidized and discolored to a pale gray. I will post my photos soon. Best, Michael (Michael Trömner) A very large number of recorded gun makers marks, comprising barrel smiths, lock makers and gun stockers, all point out the both important and well-known area around the town of Suhl, Thuringia, Germany. Today, there are still thousands of original and completely preserved muskets, which are on exhibition almost all over the Western World. There are hundreds of museums and private collections holding those muskets, including *an extremely fine piece dated 1602* on the hexagonal (!) barrel, mounted on the stock with a central top edge*. In weaponry, the German term of this extremely rare sort of finest made barrels is Schweinsrückenlauf* (a barrel shaped like a hog's back). This musket dated 1602 ranges among a very small group of the world's topmost pieces of the most refined sort of 'military' long guns produced and marked by Suhl workshops from ca. 1590 to 1610, which means ca. 1600. It is a relatively large number of muskets mounted with barrels struck with an unusually comprehensive pack of historically recorded facts, allowing experts to assign that close date line to this limited group. Those facts quite often comprise: I. Barrel marks I.1 Marks primarily struck: in the read hot iron, and by the barrel smiths - before the barrels were sent to be proofed They are easily identifiable by being clearly struck deepest, meaning struck in the iron powerfully while still in red heat; many of both the initials and symbols of these stamps have been identified and assigned to Suhl workshops; a name and symbol often identified is KLETT, meaning burdock I.2 Marks secondarily struck: This group mainly comprises the marks of dealers, mostly also identifiable, and very often belonging to members of the well-known KLETT family, too I.3 The Suhl proof marks SVL and the hen, the symbol of the Countship (German: Grafschaft) of Suhl, Thuringia, Eastern Germany I.4 Dates struck Quite often, barrels of such high-quality arsenal muskets are dated, meaning that a date was secondarily struck, and after the barrels had both passed the proof and had been polished/finished on the upper side not covered by the stock; the underside of barrels mounted on 'military'/arsenal muskets was always left in the rough, and blued Last edited by Matchlock; 15th June 2014 at 11:12 PM.

16th June 2014, 10:14 PM	#8
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	The notes on this photo of a stock say "1715 Plate Fleet, lots of silver wire inlay and overlay". The other 1715 images are not-to-scale drawings, but there is a photo labeled "From one of the Tallahassee Mission Sites ca 1656 - 1704" in the mix. A miquelet-lock and main spring are easily recognizable. Attached Images

15th June 2014, 05:32 PM	#4
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Friday I had a chance to speak with James Levy. He was the original source of these images. He sent them to Miqueleter (along with others) in the late 90s. At the time he was the conservator for the Florida Bureau of Archaeological. Mr. Levy tells me that the image of the lock is actually a casting that he made. He also says the stock is now on display at Museum of Florida History in Tallahassee Florida. These items fascinate me, especially the brass decoration on the stock. I plan to try and acquire better photographs when I next visit Tallahassee. Is anyone interested in seeing some of the other copies Miqueleter sent from the 1715 fleet wreck? If so, I'll be glad to post them.

16th June 2014, 04:34 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Michael, I am truly at a loss for words at these magnificent entries of yours!!! I have the greatest admiration for true arms research and writing, and you are the master of all!!!!! It is so good to see you blazing away here with ALL barrels!!!! My deepest thanks, Jim