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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 23
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As a complete novice in the field of swords-I wondered if anyone might have an idea as to where this Keris is from and what it was used for.Thanks Very Much-Boswego[Keris1.jpg][Keris2.jpg][Keris3.jpg][Keris4.jpg]
P.S.-I'm having problems w/ my antiquated windows98 and javascript re attachments-i hope the pics shop up. |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 23
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Sorry,dont seem to be able to attach the Keris pics-when i hit the 'manage attachments' bar i get the old 'the page cannot be displayed' message ('detect network settings' prompt doesnt work either).
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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Boswego, try hosting them on www.photobucket.com or you can email them to me at awinston@aol.com and I'll post them.
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 46
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.. i'm courious...
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#5 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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Here you go, Boswego.
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Posts: 312
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Maranao pre-19th century used for fighting...well...Maranao if we believe the trunk theory, has the nice Maranao bulge. Pre-19th century well again back to Bob's book, separate gangya would in the very least indicate pre 1930 (one date to feature I am dead sure about), possibly with considerable age if we consider wider spaced luks to be an older phenomena. Oh well...somedays I figure what do we really know about these things. There are alot of theories, but where is the proof. Its nice to move forward, and have lots to say about weaponry, but why is it accurate? Based on what? Nice kris by the way. I like the perabot features, the double fullering, and the overall dapur of the blade (well to steal terms from the keris guys). Very graceful piece, looks like it has a story to tell.
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#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
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Hi Frederico, when you say wider-spaced luks, do you mean the luks are 'longer'? But in this kris, the first 4 luks are compressed into the lower half of the blade, and they look pretty 'cramped'. Or do you mean the 5th luk, which is stretched out?
Just clarifying. Thanks. |
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#8 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Posts: 312
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Hello BluErf...because I am blanking on a good way to explain it, compare the spacing of the luks of Boswego's kris to the kris in these pictures. Particularly the top kris is the newest. As you can see, as time progresses the compression of luk spacing becomes much tighter, with some more modern kris, particularly after 1900 having extreme numbers of tightly spaced luks.
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#9 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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As opposed to :
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
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Ah, a few pictures say a few thousand words.
![]() But just an observation -- as the number of luks increases, the wavelength would have to decrease. It must, or the blade will have to lengthen, which is not always practical. So are we also talking about newer blades having more luks? In keris world, there is this belief that the more number of luks a keris has, the more powerful or exalted it is. I read somewhere about this warrior 'threatening' asked another person if he should unsheath his keris which has 47 luks -- which would lead to bloodshed. (How the empu manage to squeeze that many luks into a 13-15 inch blade is a complete mystery to me). So as time goes by, "luk inflation" takes place as people want krises with more and more luks. That may contribute to the reduction in spacing between the luks, maybe? Just thinking... Btw, in keris world, there is also this phenomena of "luk inflation", and not only that, the amplitude of luk increases. i.e. the older pieces have more gentle undulating luks, the newer ones have more roundish, exaggerated luks. Where the luks are many (>17), the luks almost look triangle-lish. |
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#11 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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Back to the piece at hand .
I'm a little suspicious about these seemingly archaic blades that have such a shallow and rudimentary sogokan , pecetan and janur ( using Frey's Indo terms ) . Compare the pictures hosted by Andrew with the other archaic Kris posted by myself . I've always wondered about this . |
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#12 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 23
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Thanks for all the great knowledge and feedback.So from what I gather this is a Phillipine Moro Kris -poss a pre-19th Cent piece from the Marano Tribe/Province. What,generally,were these types of shortswords used for,and could I possibly locate a correct scabbard for it ?
(I'm a woodworker,and w/the correct native materials could fabricate one providing I had accurate ethnographic photos/measurements). |
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#13 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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Boswego, the Moro kris is a fighting weapon.
![]() Could someone post up some scabbard pix for us to look at? |
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#14 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
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Rick! How many times do i have to warn you not to post that gorgeous kris anymore!
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#15 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Posts: 312
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Rick, Boswego's kris, and the middle kris in my pic are not true archaic style such as yours, hence the difference. They represent a mid-point between the Archaic, and the late 19th/early20th groups. Angle of the Gangya is 45 degrees, blades are larger, dapur more modern (hmm hard to describe wish I was able to post more pics), as you noted the arrowhead region is shallower. At least thats how I like to think about it. 3 identifiable ages of Moro kris, pre-1930. Archaic (such as yours), mid-point (Boswego's and the middle kris in my group), and 19th/early20th century (the vast majority of Kris we discuss here). Anyways, along with Nechesh, I must admit everytime you post that kris of yours I need a mop to clean up all the drool
![]() BluErf. Exactly and kinda. ![]() |
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#16 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 221
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The blade looks Maranao but the hilt is typical Maguindanao, maybe from south Lake Lanao, between the two sultanates...nice form
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#17 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 23
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Frederico-So this Kris dates roughly between 1800 and the 1890's ? P.S.-Found some good maintenance/restoration tips on Your site.
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#18 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Posts: 312
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#19 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 23
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Frederico-Now I have to find some of that Violin Wax/Oil You mentioned in Your Restoration/Maintenence Link.
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#20 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Posts: 312
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#21 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,200
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If it a nice piece, you could use "Renaissance Wax". Good for leather, wood, metal. I use it. (I sound like a cheap comercial
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#22 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
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Geez Jose, first a movie and now commercial endorsements! What next, the Soaps?
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#23 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 20
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is the Boswegos kriss is new piece ? I like absolutly yes
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#24 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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It is in all probability from the 19th century . I like it a lot too . ![]() |
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#25 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Posts: 312
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Ive become very enamoured with pledge lately for wood. Nothing to harsh, safe for many types of finish, and above all cheap and relatively easy to get. Ive been meaning to give RenWax a try, but Ive become far too absent minded in the care of my blades.
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#26 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 23
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I've had a late 19th Century Meiji Tobbako Ire (sp?-Meiji Japanese Tobbacco Purse/Pouch).It's crafted of leather,mixed metals,ivory,etc. I want to freshen up the leather -so I check out the Civil War collectors,the Smithsonian Q&A , the Antique Forums,et al.Restoration,being a science and an art, is a witheringly confusing field.When You include Museum Curators in the discussion,You have to try to forecast the stability of a product into the next millenia.Luckily,I don't have to worry too much about My pouch,I dont think it has overwhelming historical significance. However,if I ever unearth a Leigonnaires Helmet in old town Jerusalem.....
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