Need suggestions for keris certification format

[Neo]

I am inviting all open and objective minds to contribute in designing a format for keris certification. What sort of information, and in what order would you like the certification to contain?

One of the goals is to preserve the historical aspect of certain kerises before it is too late. Let's say you acquired a fine keris from a respectable collector in Indonesia. The keris has the title "Kanjeng Kyahi X". Having done your due dilligence, you verified from independent sources that the kerises indeed came from Prince Y of Keraton Z sometime in the 1970s who gave them to the previous collector before you. Now, having this piece of Java's history in your custody, how would you prove to the future generation that this keris is indeed the "Kanjeng Kyahi X" that was once the possession of Prince Y of Keraton Z? Unless some proper documentation is done, a national heritage is bound to be gone by the wind as the time goes by ... it may end up being in sale at Rawabening 50 something years later and nobody would have known the rich history of the beautiful piece ...

Another goal is to provide responsible documentation for authentic pieces to be done by ethical professionals. The ideal goal is to establish something equivalent to Hon'ami family's samurai swords certification in Japan. Good, responsible appraisal of authentic pieces. This initiative is guaranteed to reap bitter response from certain parties, but something has to be done anyway, right now, in order to preserve what we can still save of the keris heritage ... Over time, hopefully, the organization doing the certification will continously improve itself and find better ways to do its preservation mission while dealing properly with external pressures. What sort of information would you like to see in the certificate for the second group of kerises? Obviously tangguh would be a subjective and prone-to-be-inaccurate assessment, so other than tangguh, what other information would you like to see in order to reflect the quality of the keris?

I am actually trying to do a homework given by a senior member of Indonesia's keris society. He is asking me to come up with examples of format for keris certification so I suggested him that I post something here and hope that the sincere, knowledgeable folks here would contribute useful things.

We also discussed about possible identification devices to be attached to the keris in order to match it with the certificate. One idea would be to laser-engrave some number on the pesi, but I for one would object to this severely as it is tampering with a historical piece. Feel free to discuss alternatives that you feel is more suitable for this purpose.

Let the fun begin ...

[David]

Originally Posted by Neo

We also discussed about possible identification devices to be attached to the keris in order to match it with the certificate. One idea would be to laser-engrave some number on the pesi, but I for one would object to this severely as it is tampering with a historical piece. Feel free to discuss alternatives that you feel is more suitable for this purpose.

I agree that this is a very, VERY bad idea. I even hate when museums painr numbers on.
Frankly Neo, certification something that i have little interest in and don't particularly see as a practical or particularly useful thing, but others may well have different opinions on this. I have never bought a keris for it's storied history. Only the ones that "speak" directly to me with no written certificate of approval...

[Gustav]

Well, I think, it looks like a welcome possibility to gain some additional income in this chain. Now between keris makers and keris dealers we would have also keris certificators. Yet of course they would stay out of the business and remain straight!

As I understand, this idea is by no means new. Yet regarding the missing basement of accessible knowledge and detailed information compare to Nihonto, and also some other factors, it would be just a big bluff, and would led to new malpractices.

[A. G. Maisey]

Neo, from your post I believe that I can safely assume that you, yourself , are an Indonesian, living in Indonesia, and are a part of a keris study group in Indonesia, possibly in Jakarta.

As such, I believe it is reasonable for me to assume that you have a good understanding of Indonesian moral values and the characteristics of Indonesian society, and most particularly Javanese society.

May I most respectfully suggest that you consider the implications of establishment of any Indonesian group or organisation that set out to provide keris certification. Most especially you should consider this from the point of view of a dealer.

Similarly, perhaps you may care to consider the benefits to a dealer of an accepted structure that under-pinned the collection of the keris.

I believe you will already have the knowledge and experience necessary to answer your own question.

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

BAAAAD idea......
Shades of HEGEMONY, 'closed-shop' etc!
Certainly WON'T stop fraud and corruption.
Will tend to commercialize the keris even more.
May create a 'new' class of 'kerisologists' who, in the extreme, may know nothing about the keris, but will certainly have the money to buy the 'certified' 'best'.

It reminds me of what the English language was like before the advent of the Oxford. The initial Oxford took about five decades to complete, incorporating contributions from individuals and interested parties. It became 'gospel', even 'static' for a period of time; anything not in it just 'wasn't English'.
However, even IT had to evolve to cope with the living language. It is continues to evolve...
Will a 'certification' system for the keris have the facility to evolve? How will it cope with items which do not fall within its current frame of reference but deemed to be of significance (e.g 'diluar pakem', palawija)?

Best,

[rasjid]

As we all know, that Tangguh is the hardest part for certification because its an assumption and there is no clear and standard way available. (a never ending story).

Keris certification is possible for newly made keris. So, if Neo prepared to scale down his project, we can start the discussion.

I personally believe that there are current maker around who can make "Good" Keris for us (plus your luck, of course... )

[A. G. Maisey]

Rasjid, if we were to look at recent or new pieces, it would need to be in the nature of an appraisal, not a certification.

Since new and recent pieces are in the nature of art works, what this would amount to would be a situation where a maker's work was given an appraisal that resulted in it being declared good, bad or indifferent --- or maybe excellent.

Can you imagine the implications that would apply if this were to be the case?

Art works in other fields do not apply this type of appraisal, it is applied by the awarding of prizes in art competitions, but very often, the very best artists and sculptors do not submit their work to judging in a competition because they tend to consider the judges of these competitions to be lacking in the talent necessary to pass judgement on their work.

When all is said and done, it is the buyer who decides what an art work is worth and why it is worth a particular sum, but if the buyer does not wish to meet the artist's demands, then the artist need not accept his commission.

I'm sorry, but I cannot see any value in any of these appraisal or certification schemes for anybody except the dealers, especially the high level dealers. Conversely, all I can see for the inexperienced collector is a further endorsement of a market that is already riddled with deception.This would be just another opportunity for deception.

I think I understand what Neo has put forward, and in all honesty, if it could be implemented it would be a wonderful advance. Regrettably, I have very severe doubts that such a system could ever be implemented upon any footing at all, anywhere. The problem is money:- wherever money is involved, no matter how high minded the certifiers or appraisers may be when the scheme begins, it will inevitably be corrupted sooner or later.

Call me cynical if you will, but I have very good reasons for this cynicism.

[rasjid]

Alan, I'm thinking of Certification (Certificate Authenticity by the maker) not Appraisal for the Keris.
The Certification may be consist of:
1. Dhapur
2. Pamor
3. Material used (pamor and slorok)
4. Name/date maker's name.
5. Picture of pawakan/ sor soran, etc
and others

So hopefully for the next 200years our great great grandsons still keep it and nobody will argue about the Keris we are having today..... hopefully.

rasjid

[A. G. Maisey]

OK, that's a bit different.

Pauzan used to do a signed certificate that he issued with his keris, but some other makers during the 1980's and '90's considered that this was a break with tradition and held that anybody who was entitled to know (by virtue of knowledge and experience) would know who had made a keris. The piece of paper was not necessary.

However, this issue of a certificate by a maker is absolutely different to what Neo was proposing at the outset.

[kai]

Hello Neo,

One of the goals is to preserve the historical aspect of certain kerises before it is too late. Let's say you acquired a fine keris from a respectable collector in Indonesia. The keris has the title "Kanjeng Kyahi X". Having done your due dilligence, you verified from independent sources that the kerises indeed came from Prince Y of Keraton Z sometime in the 1970s who gave them to the previous collector before you. Now, having this piece of Java's history in your custody, how would you prove to the future generation that this keris is indeed the "Kanjeng Kyahi X" that was once the possession of Prince Y of Keraton Z?

Well, to prove it beyond reasonable doubt will be pretty tough unless you get a written and signed affidavit from the prince and several unrelated people attending that very ceremony. In most cases, all you can do to establish provenance is to document all information that you've been able to obtain - even with the best intentions this is still very much prone to errors as well as deceit (thus, the age old adage to buy the keris and not the story...). And keep in mind that in our digital age pretty much all documentation can easily be forged (or just get lost). To publish pics of a given keris and related documentation on a site like this may help but this approach would certainly go against Javanese traditions.

Another goal is to provide responsible documentation for authentic pieces to be done by ethical professionals. The ideal goal is to establish something equivalent to Hon'ami family's samurai swords certification in Japan. Good, responsible appraisal of authentic pieces.

Have you checked how well this certification functions and its associated costs? (Keep in mind that due to the bladesmiths' signatures and historical documents, Japanese sword identification is pretty much science as opposed to the tanguh game divided in several schools of thought for keris Jawa alone...)

As others have pointed out, even when limiting the efforts to central Javanese keris, finding a balanced panel of qualified experts without conflicts of interest will be next to impossible and still very much prone to social pressures, especially within Indonesian society.

This initiative is guaranteed to reap bitter response from certain parties, but something has to be done anyway, right now, in order to preserve what we can still save of the keris heritage ... Over time, hopefully, the organization doing the certification will continously improve itself and find better ways to do its preservation mission while dealing properly with external pressures.

Well, most things in life deteriorate rather than improve with time. You'd need to implement (and enforce!) strong evaluation measures to keep and even improve quality. Independant/external evaluation and monitoring that the given feedback gets followed would add another level of complexity, or two...

Obviously tangguh would be a subjective and prone-to-be-inaccurate assessment, so other than tangguh, what other information would you like to see in order to reflect the quality of the keris?

Craftmanship and artistic quality are not easy to judge as already pointed out by Alan and will pose problems with current era craftsmen as well as historic empu regarded as cultural icons.

I for one would be more than happy if the mere age/period of a keris blade as well as that of its fittings could be established by scientific methods. I know that several people are trying to work out time lines by reconstructing the evolution of stylistic features and other approaches. There are also a number of modern technologies which certainly could help to acquire "hard" data that are open to academic discussion (rather than debate of personal opinions however learned these might be). While routine application of these tests might later prove economically feasible (not for the $100 blade though), I haven't been able to figure out how to fund a serious research project necessary for adapting and validating those methods.

We also discussed about possible identification devices to be attached to the keris in order to match it with the certificate. One idea would be to laser-engrave some number on the pesi, but I for one would object to this severely as it is tampering with a historical piece.

For most keris (especially those with pamor) a "passport" with extensive photographic documentation would be completely sufficient to verify identity. However, the problem will be how to avoid forgeries - even the pretty sophisticated passports for humans do get forged. Even when avoiding any papers and aiming at an online system, this will present a serious nightmare regarding data safety (data loss, corruption, hacking, etc.) that most likely will never be feasible except for the very highend keris.

Regards,
Kai