Chinese or Korean dao

josh stout · 4th April 2019, 03:29 PM

This is an ornate cloisonne dao that at first glance looks like a mediocre Chinese copy of a Japanese sword, made for show.

Close inspection of the blade shows what looks like an inserted edge and a typical uninspiring quality fuller. However, there are several details that make me wonder if it is something more rare.

The blade has a much stronger diamond cross section than is typical. The handle turns up in the same direction as the tip instead of down. The tang is not peened.

All of these could be attributed to an attempt to copy Japanese styles, but then why not make the tip faceted?

Another possibility is that it is Korean. They are so rare, that this must be examined very skeptically. Nevertheless, it would fit the combination of seeming Chinese and Japanese characteristics. The blade shape with a strong diamond section but no faceting fits. The handle construction is also similar to Korean things.

The most convincing evidence is the suspension loops. They are in a style that I don't recall seeing on Chinese examples, and but do appear on Korean examples. There is an example of a gum in the "History of Steel" exhibition catalog, with similar fittings.

Let me know how badly I should kick myself for "the one that got away."

josh stout · 4th April 2019, 03:30 PM

More pics.

mross · 4th April 2019, 04:45 PM

From what I am seeing in the pics, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

josh stout · 4th April 2019, 04:56 PM

So you think it is a bad Chinese copy of a Japanese blade? It is certainly not the best workmanship I have ever seen. If it were better, I would have bid higher.

An argument against it being Korean is that they almost never have a fuller.

mross · 4th April 2019, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh stout

So you think it is a bad Chinese copy of a Japanese blade? It is certainly not the best workmanship I have ever seen. If it were better, I would have bid higher.

An argument against it being Korean is that they almost never have a fuller.

Not sure what it is, can't tell much from the pics. Since that's all we have and that's what determines bidding, I would assume they put up the best possible pics. Going on that assumption it does not look to be of very high quality. Chinese weapons are not my best area, but I have never seen anything of high quality in a dress like that. I had a friend who had a Korean dao given to him by his Instructor, no fuller, had a hamon and showed lamination's. I don't see anything like that.

mariusgmioc · 4th April 2019, 09:37 PM

Purely decorative/tourist sword-like object with absolutely no ethnographic or historical value whether Chinese or Korean...

My two cents.

ariel · 5th April 2019, 12:16 AM

Josh,
IMHO, you are lucky that some schmuck put a higher bid.

Timo Nieminen · 6th April 2019, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh stout

An argument against it being Korean is that they almost never have a fuller.

Hmm. Almost 1/3 of the Korean do in the History of Steel exhibition have fullers (4 out of 13), so it doesn't seem that rare.

http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...ction_main.htm

josh stout · 9th April 2019, 03:43 PM

Yes, I agonized over this. As a Chinese sword it is not very exciting, but as a Korean sword it is quite interesting. In terms of design characteristics it fits everything for a Korean sword, but not a Chinese or Japanese sword.

It is missing a habaki/tonku, but this also seems to be a somewhat variable trait.

The primary argument against this sword is its overall "showiness" combined with a mediocre blade.

Timo Nieminen · 27th April 2019, 02:58 PM

IMO, the blade looks very modern. As in late 20th or even 21st century, the kind of thing common on modern Chinese-made fake katana/tachi/gunto.

4th April 2019, 03:29 PM	#1
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Chinese or Korean dao This is an ornate cloisonne dao that at first glance looks like a mediocre Chinese copy of a Japanese sword, made for show. Close inspection of the blade shows what looks like an inserted edge and a typical uninspiring quality fuller. However, there are several details that make me wonder if it is something more rare. The blade has a much stronger diamond cross section than is typical. The handle turns up in the same direction as the tip instead of down. The tang is not peened. All of these could be attributed to an attempt to copy Japanese styles, but then why not make the tip faceted? Another possibility is that it is Korean. They are so rare, that this must be examined very skeptically. Nevertheless, it would fit the combination of seeming Chinese and Japanese characteristics. The blade shape with a strong diamond section but no faceting fits. The handle construction is also similar to Korean things. The most convincing evidence is the suspension loops. They are in a style that I don't recall seeing on Chinese examples, and but do appear on Korean examples. There is an example of a gum in the "History of Steel" exhibition catalog, with similar fittings. Let me know how badly I should kick myself for "the one that got away." Attached Images Last edited by josh stout; 5th April 2019 at 03:09 AM. Reason: I removed my hope that another forumite has the sword ;)

4th April 2019, 03:30 PM	#2
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	More pics. Attached Images

4th April 2019, 04:45 PM	#3
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	From what I am seeing in the pics, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

4th April 2019, 04:56 PM	#4
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	So you think it is a bad Chinese copy of a Japanese blade? It is certainly not the best workmanship I have ever seen. If it were better, I would have bid higher. An argument against it being Korean is that they almost never have a fuller.

4th April 2019, 09:37 PM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Purely decorative/tourist sword-like object with absolutely no ethnographic or historical value whether Chinese or Korean... My two cents.

5th April 2019, 12:16 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Josh, IMHO, you are lucky that some schmuck put a higher bid.

9th April 2019, 03:43 PM	#9
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Yes, I agonized over this. As a Chinese sword it is not very exciting, but as a Korean sword it is quite interesting. In terms of design characteristics it fits everything for a Korean sword, but not a Chinese or Japanese sword. It is missing a habaki/tonku, but this also seems to be a somewhat variable trait. The primary argument against this sword is its overall "showiness" combined with a mediocre blade.

27th April 2019, 02:58 PM	#10
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	IMO, the blade looks very modern. As in late 20th or even 21st century, the kind of thing common on modern Chinese-made fake katana/tachi/gunto.