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#1 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
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I was able to add a pira to the collection, it's a rather big sword with 79 cm overall and a blade from 50,5 cm, behind the handle is the blade 9,5 mm thick.
I think to see two blade repairs, see the pictures. The blade is rather pitted, sadly. Ferrule is from pinkish silver. The tip of the blade is thickened at the tip again, is this a common feature by pira blades? Like usual, all comments are welcome! ![]() |
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#2 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
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This thickening that you speak of Detlef is not present in the blade of my example which is almost identical to yours but a bit shorter at 27 inches overall.
Nice find; we don't see many of this form. ![]() |
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#3 | |
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That we don't see many of them is the reason that they are so expensive! ![]() ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Oct 2018
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Hi Detlef, I think we have similar pieces. Mine has a blade length of 51.5cm, and 78cm overall. The tip is also thickened at the tip. Spine thickness at the base is 0.8cm. I'm not sure what the ferrule material is, but it has engravings. Posting a pic comparing it with a younger pira.
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#5 | |
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![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Hello Detlef,
Congrats, that certainly is a nice example! I'd be very interested to see how this blade looks after etching (that will also help to analyze those 2 areas that you think may be repairs). I don't think the pitting distracts very much - it's certainly a good blade! I have a really similar piece (with suasa ferrule) that is also thinner where the blade is wider and again thicker where narrowing towards the tip. I believe this is mainly due to forging a billet of relatively even thickness to different widths, something that can be seen with many SEA blades. I'm not convinced the thinness of the wide part has any important functional reason; one possibility would be to increase cutting ability near the sweet spot. We certainly need more details from a wide variety of this traditional gasah/pira style. Since dating is difficult to begin with, establishing a reliable timeline might prove very tough. Could you add more dimensions for your blade, please? Will also try this weekend. Regards, Kai Last edited by kai; 9th January 2021 at 05:06 PM. |
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#7 | ||||
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Thank you! ![]() Quote:
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Regards, Detlef |
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#8 |
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Here the picture.
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#9 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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#10 | |
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Yes, this will be the reason, it's logically. Second point will be the strengthing of a weak point IMVHO. Regards, Detlef |
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#11 |
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Hello all,
Is there anyone truly qualified to give some details on the actual use of the traditional gasah, especially moves commonly utilized during fighting? IMNSHO, we need to get some genuine input before being able to reasonably discuss form & function. As a guesstimate from handling, I'd suggest that the blade is optimized for cutting; poking with the tip is feasible though. In a way, it kinda resembles a barung with extended reach - possibly leaning more towards slashing than chopping compared to typical barung (however, the vast diversity of barung blades does not really allow for sweeping generalisations either). Regards, Kai |
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#12 | |
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Hello Detlef,
Quote:
Regards, Kai |
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#13 | |
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Hello Wayne,
Quote:
Consider the bladesmith starting the final forging work with a billet of even width and thickness - probably quite close to the intended proportions at the future base of the blade. Then one starts to widen the blade by gradually forging out the edge: The wider the blade is forged, the thinner it gets; after the widest section, the back of the blade gets/stays thicker because the width is decreasing again. Only after the thickness is finally decreasing towards the very tip (and the width also being reduced towards the point, is there considerably less metal behind the edge... If one were to (transversally) cut the blade into even slices (say, 10mm), each of them would weight (almost) the same if my observations are correct. It is possible that there is a bit of distal taper (actually quite inevitable if the bladesmith progresses from base towards the tip during forging) - often this seems to get overestimated though, especially when concentrating on the thickness along the back of a blade. The side profile can lead one astray as well. It really is important to see any blade as 3-dimensional object! Regards, Kai Last edited by kai; 10th January 2021 at 11:48 AM. |
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#14 |
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Here some data for my example:
weight 634 g 707 mm total length 450 mm blade length 264 mm hilt length (89.2 mm grip length including 33.75 mm ferrule) 102 mm point of balance (from ferrule) 303 mm from upper base to bump at back of blade 154 mm from bump to tip thickness at base of blade back: 9.8 mm "edge": 8.0 mm width: 20.1 mm thickness - 151.5 mm from base back: 3.75 mm 39mm from edge: 3.4 mm 30mm from edge: 3.1 mm 20mm from edge: 2.5 mm 10mm from edge: 2.0 mm width: 47.3 mm thickness - 303 mm from base (bump at back of blade) back: 1.9 mm 10mm from back: 2.1 mm 20mm from back: 2.3 mm [concave surface] 39mm from edge: 2.2 mm 30mm from edge: 2.0 mm 20mm from edge: 1.85 mm 10mm from edge: 1.5 mm width: 68.5 mm thickness - 77 mm from tip back: 2.75 mm max near back: 3.15 mm 30mm from edge: 3.1 mm 20mm from edge: 2.9 mm 10mm from edge: 2.1 mm width: 38.8 mm blade thickness - 44 mm from tip (local maximum) back: 3.2 mm max near back: 3.45 mm 20mm from edge: 3.4 mm 10mm from edge: 2.4 mm blade width: 25.3 mm |
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#15 | |
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Fine that we have such detailed measurements from your example but a picture or two would be very useful also! ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#16 | |
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#17 |
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Here some more measurements from the pira in question, not so detailed but useful I guess.
Length overall: 790 mm Blade length: 509 mm Handle length: 280 mm Length along spine from handle (base) until bump: 369 mm Length bump until tip: 140 mm Spine thickness: Base: 10 mm 240 mm from base: 3 mm Bump: 2,2 mm approx. middle bump-tip: 3,3 mm Tip: 1,7 mm False edge behind handle: 8,8 mm Weight: 750 gram Point of balance is surprisingly at the same point as by the pira Kai own. Last edited by Sajen; 11th January 2021 at 12:15 AM. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Thanks, Detlef!
Maybe the other forumites could also add data for their pieces, please? Regards, Kai |
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#19 |
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BTW, I'll try to take pics of my example - too busy this week though...
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#20 |
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Join Date: Oct 2018
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Recently got a pira off ebay. It's slightly smaller, rougher (especially the hilt) as compared to my older piece but still a great wield, very light and manueverable, probably the forerunner of the modern pira. Hilt is 5.25in, blade is 19.25in.
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#21 |
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Hello Xas,
Thanks for reminding me... ![]() ![]() I believe this is a genuine antique blade that got redressed some time during the 20th century: the ferrule might be original, the hilt and scabbard are definitely younger. Regards, Kai |
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#22 |
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Thanks for the look-over: eagerly awaiting your pics Kai =)
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#23 | |
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![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#24 |
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Hi Detlef! Thanks for this opinion...one of my mentors also believes it's all-original, and a younger time period than our pommel-extended samples. It's got a thinner spine as well, with the base at only 0.6cm, and a much lighter wield than my pommel-extended pira, or other old pira that I've held. The blade has a very slasher feel to it; when it botches up a cut, the blade flexes (much like how Maguindanao kampilan tips behave) but it's easy to straighten out again.
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