Bayonet from mazar-i-sharif. Translation help needed.

spiral · 19th July 2006, 09:18 PM

Well not sure its tottaly ethnographic but it is the Afghani interpritation of the British Lee-metford & the Martini-Henry .303 1888 pattern bayonet so perhaps would intrest someone? Its a fresh Afghan bringback same as the kukri.

Copied from a design made by Wilkinson Sword. Obviouslly hand made but very well done.

It goes well with the mazar-i-sharif kukri I got last month, just need one of thier Shaskas next!

Can anyone translate the tang inscription?

cheers,
Spiral

The Bayonet stamp.

Kukri stamp for comparison....

Tim Simmons · 19th July 2006, 09:24 PM

The bayonet scabbard looks very fresh. I think the 303 is still in use in some parts of Asia. Nepal?

spiral · 19th July 2006, 09:31 PM

yes Tim they do use that caliber but normaly as the Lee Enfield which takes a differnt fixing on the bayonet.

In the hand one can see the leathers age though, Fresh? no chance!

Its like loads of the Pre WW1 bayonet scabbards I see. You must as well?

The bayonet is used but looked after, never even been sharpened.

Spiral

S.Al-Anizi · 19th July 2006, 09:48 PM

I believe that date reads "1312", 1894 in the western calendar. The inscription on the tang of the bayonet doesnt seem to be a word, rather two or three letters.

spiral · 19th July 2006, 09:51 PM

Thanks S.Al-Anizi, What letters are they?

Spiral

S.Al-Anizi · 19th July 2006, 10:36 PM

Im not really sure. I think I can make out two k's, with a glottal stop on top of the first one, which is usual, why the second one has no glottal stop I dont know. The k's are also written awkwardly. Im not 100% positive though.

drdavid · 19th July 2006, 10:40 PM

Hi Spiral
very interesting indeed. The Lee-Metford came in 3 (some might say 4) standard issue forms and was also made for a lot of colonial and 'irregular' forces around the British empire in a variety of places. Many of these knock offs were not particularly well made, with the central spine being thinner and less pronounced. This Afghan one however looks very nice. If you look at other side of the hilt the position of the oil hole will tell you which of the British models they copied for this design.
cheers
DrD

spiral · 19th July 2006, 10:58 PM

OK S.Al-Anizi Thankyou, all info is of intrest to me.

Thanks DrDavid , yes the 1888 & 1903 have always been may favorite English bayonets, But although I have had many this is my first keeper amongst them.

From the rivets its not the mk.1 or mk.4 I think? but it doesnt have an oil/cleaning hole so its not quite the same as the English models. its The Royal Afghans interpritation. I would guees a modified mk.2 perhaps?

I understand they were used on the Afghan Martini-Henrys out there, rather than the lee metfords.

I have compared it with British made ones & its a very close copy in dimensions etc, I had to examine with a 9x lens to be certain it wasnt British made. But I am sure a true bayonet collector would know at a glance.

Spiral

Zifir · 20th July 2006, 12:03 AM

Is it possible that the glottal sound on the first K is rather a number (6)? Might be referring to the army unit which it belonged. Just a thought though.

S.Al-Anizi · 20th July 2006, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zifir

Is it possible that the glottal sound on the first K is rather a number (6)? Might be referring to the army unit which it belonged. Just a thought though.

It is possible, though the bottom slash of the 6 is acutely closing toward the other top curved slash, which is wrong. It should be obtusely curved.

spiral · 20th July 2006, 04:21 PM

Thanks Zifir .... S.Al-Anizi,

Interesting, I dont know if it will help explain the markings, re.military etc. but heres another set of bayonet tang markings from the same era in Afghanistan, sadley this one isnt mine though.

Perhaps that helps with your insights?

Spiral

19th July 2006, 09:18 PM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Bayonet from mazar-i-sharif. Translation help needed. Well not sure its tottaly ethnographic but it is the Afghani interpritation of the British Lee-metford & the Martini-Henry .303 1888 pattern bayonet so perhaps would intrest someone? Its a fresh Afghan bringback same as the kukri. Copied from a design made by Wilkinson Sword. Obviouslly hand made but very well done. It goes well with the mazar-i-sharif kukri I got last month, just need one of thier Shaskas next! Can anyone translate the tang inscription? cheers, Spiral The Bayonet stamp. Kukri stamp for comparison....

19th July 2006, 09:24 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	The bayonet scabbard looks very fresh. I think the 303 is still in use in some parts of Asia. Nepal?

19th July 2006, 09:31 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	yes Tim they do use that caliber but normaly as the Lee Enfield which takes a differnt fixing on the bayonet. In the hand one can see the leathers age though, Fresh? no chance! Its like loads of the Pre WW1 bayonet scabbards I see. You must as well? The bayonet is used but looked after, never even been sharpened. Spiral

19th July 2006, 09:48 PM	#4
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	I believe that date reads "1312", 1894 in the western calendar. The inscription on the tang of the bayonet doesnt seem to be a word, rather two or three letters.

19th July 2006, 09:51 PM	#5
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thanks S.Al-Anizi, What letters are they? Spiral

19th July 2006, 10:36 PM	#6
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Im not really sure. I think I can make out two k's, with a glottal stop on top of the first one, which is usual, why the second one has no glottal stop I dont know. The k's are also written awkwardly. Im not 100% positive though.

19th July 2006, 10:40 PM	#7
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Hi Spiral very interesting indeed. The Lee-Metford came in 3 (some might say 4) standard issue forms and was also made for a lot of colonial and 'irregular' forces around the British empire in a variety of places. Many of these knock offs were not particularly well made, with the central spine being thinner and less pronounced. This Afghan one however looks very nice. If you look at other side of the hilt the position of the oil hole will tell you which of the British models they copied for this design. cheers DrD

19th July 2006, 10:58 PM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	OK S.Al-Anizi Thankyou, all info is of intrest to me. Thanks DrDavid , yes the 1888 & 1903 have always been may favorite English bayonets, But although I have had many this is my first keeper amongst them. From the rivets its not the mk.1 or mk.4 I think? but it doesnt have an oil/cleaning hole so its not quite the same as the English models. its The Royal Afghans interpritation. I would guees a modified mk.2 perhaps? I understand they were used on the Afghan Martini-Henrys out there, rather than the lee metfords. I have compared it with British made ones & its a very close copy in dimensions etc, I had to examine with a 9x lens to be certain it wasnt British made. But I am sure a true bayonet collector would know at a glance. Spiral

20th July 2006, 12:03 AM	#9
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Is it possible that the glottal sound on the first K is rather a number (6)? Might be referring to the army unit which it belonged. Just a thought though.

20th July 2006, 04:21 PM	#11
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thanks Zifir .... S.Al-Anizi, Interesting, I dont know if it will help explain the markings, re.military etc. but heres another set of bayonet tang markings from the same era in Afghanistan, sadley this one isnt mine though. Perhaps that helps with your insights? Spiral