Remains of Oriental (?) dagger

Evgeny_K · 29th December 2014, 08:03 AM

Gents,
I'll be very grateful for your views on the origins of this dagger.
Looks like oriental one, but I'm not sure.
It was found in southern part of Russia.
Dagger is about 40 cm long.
Regards,
Evgeny

VANDOO · 30th December 2014, 02:23 AM

THIS SHAPE OF KNIFE IS WIDE SPREAD SO YOUR BEST BET WOULD BE TO GET AS MUCH INFORMATION ON WHERE AND WHEN IT WAS FOUND. IF IT WAS A ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIG THERE SHOULD BE SOME IDEA OF WHEN IT WAS BURIED. THE USE OF PINS TO HOLD ON THE GRIPS MAY SHED SOME LIGHT ON AGE BUT THAT IS ALSO WIDE SPREAD. PERHAPS SOMEONE WITH SPECIALIZED KNOWLEDGE IN SUCH ARTIFACTS CAN HELP YOU. GOOD LUCK

ALEX · 30th December 2014, 10:41 AM

It'd have been easier if it was found in Italy

.. it resembles so-called GENOUI form (deriving from ancient Roman (and later European) round-pommeled hilts).

If not for the oval pommel, it'd be hard to trace, as Vandoo mentioned the shape is too wide spread. But the pommel is not that common as the rest, and the tang is offset, i.e. not centered) so I'd start from there. Not sure it's Russian though.

Evgeny_K · 30th December 2014, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

It'd have been easier if it was found in Italy

.. it resembles so-called GENOUI form (deriving from ancient Roman (and later European) round-pommeled hilts).

If not for the oval pommel, it'd be hard to trace, as Vandoo mentioned the shape is too wide spread. But the pommel is not that common as the rest, and the tang is offset, i.e. not centered) so I'd start from there. Not sure it's Russian though.

Thank you, Alex!
This dagger is not Russian, of course

Don't you think it could be an ancient one?
Here for example a dagger with similar shape of the blade.

ALEX · 30th December 2014, 12:49 PM

Evgeny,
Vandoo had a good point earlier when he suggested to look at the place it was found. It is most important info you can get, if known and reliable of course. If not, it'll be much of a guess. since the dagger was found in South Russia, one must assume it had to do something with Russia

i.e.. belonged to old eurasian/nomadic tribes or have some connection to the region, if the dagger is believed to be ancient (500+ years old

. It shows some old established rust, oxidation and patina, but that could be 20-100 years, and as we all know it also can be a few days if it was "found" in China

I do not think it is ancient in historical terms. Hope someone with specific knowledge of these relics will chime in.

Evgeny_K · 6th January 2015, 12:03 PM

Alex,
I'm not sure if this dagger belonged to old eurasian/nomadic tribes or not. So I'm trying to find out...
It was found here, nearby this spearhead.

29th December 2014, 08:03 AM	#1
Evgeny_K Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 208	Remains of Oriental (?) dagger Gents, I'll be very grateful for your views on the origins of this dagger. Looks like oriental one, but I'm not sure. It was found in southern part of Russia. Dagger is about 40 cm long. Regards, Evgeny Attached Images

30th December 2014, 10:41 AM	#3
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	It'd have been easier if it was found in Italy.. it resembles so-called GENOUI form (deriving from ancient Roman (and later European) round-pommeled hilts). If not for the oval pommel, it'd be hard to trace, as Vandoo mentioned the shape is too wide spread. But the pommel is not that common as the rest, and the tang is offset, i.e. not centered) so I'd start from there. Not sure it's Russian though.

30th December 2014, 12:49 PM	#5
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Evgeny, Vandoo had a good point earlier when he suggested to look at the place it was found. It is most important info you can get, if known and reliable of course. If not, it'll be much of a guess. since the dagger was found in South Russia, one must assume it had to do something with Russia i.e.. belonged to old eurasian/nomadic tribes or have some connection to the region, if the dagger is believed to be ancient (500+ years old. It shows some old established rust, oxidation and patina, but that could be 20-100 years, and as we all know it also can be a few days if it was "found" in China I do not think it is ancient in historical terms. Hope someone with specific knowledge of these relics will chime in.

6th January 2015, 12:03 PM	#6
Evgeny_K Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 208	Alex, I'm not sure if this dagger belonged to old eurasian/nomadic tribes or not. So I'm trying to find out... It was found here, nearby this spearhead. Attached Images

30th December 2014, 02:23 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THIS SHAPE OF KNIFE IS WIDE SPREAD SO YOUR BEST BET WOULD BE TO GET AS MUCH INFORMATION ON WHERE AND WHEN IT WAS FOUND. IF IT WAS A ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIG THERE SHOULD BE SOME IDEA OF WHEN IT WAS BURIED. THE USE OF PINS TO HOLD ON THE GRIPS MAY SHED SOME LIGHT ON AGE BUT THAT IS ALSO WIDE SPREAD. PERHAPS SOMEONE WITH SPECIALIZED KNOWLEDGE IN SUCH ARTIFACTS CAN HELP YOU. GOOD LUCK