Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11th December 2014, 06:53 PM   #1
Wisram
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Default Silver Hilted Kaskara for comment

Hello
I am a new member but a long time knife enthusiast.
I recently got this Kaskara sword that apparently was brought from Africa in WWII and had since lied in a dark corner of the house (previous owner).
It is a little longer then 1 meter, blade has pitting but some kind of decorative etch can be seen on the upper 2/3 of the blade.
On both sides of the ricasso there is a stamp that reads something like "z3002..." or "zs002" I am not really sure.
I was told by a fellow collector that he suspects the blade is Ethiopian. Is it?

The Hilt is silver and so are the metal parts of the scabbard.
The scabbard however is not leather covered but some kind of cloth,
and all is left of the leather straps is a short piece.

I would love to hear your opinion on this sword and any educating detail you can share,
Thank you,
Wisram
Wisram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2014, 09:04 PM   #2
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Welcome to the forum, Wisram
and ... what about some pictures ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2014, 07:36 AM   #3
Wisram
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Default

Sorry about that, I thought I posted pictures. Trying again.
Attached Images
      
Wisram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2014, 09:37 AM   #4
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Yes, that's a European blade made for Ethiopia. Not sure of the exact context of the numbered marking, possibly simply a batch identifier.

Nice piece.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2014, 02:25 PM   #5
Wisram
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Default

Thank you Iain. Any way to estimate the age of this sword?
Wisram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2014, 03:26 PM   #6
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

I think when dating pieces like this, its important to make a distinction between the blade and the fittings.

The blade looks to be late 19th century. The hilt and fittings later, at a rough guess mid 20th century. But there are other forum members better at estimating that than myself. Ed is probably the forum member best suited for that and hopefully he sees this thread.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2014, 09:56 PM   #7
Wisram
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Default

Thanks again.
Wisram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2014, 12:35 AM   #8
Edster
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 408
Default

Wisram,

Nice kaskara. I'll defer to Iain on the blade. Looks old. The grip has a space at the top to attach the missing Beja/Hadendawa tassle so its from Eastern Sudan or the Beja parts of Eritrea.

Is the cross guard chisel pointed? If so and looks like one piece construction its was probably made in mid-20th. Cent in Kassala where it one-piece unit was developed. If its welded together it could be earlier and made in Sennar (on the Nile) or Atbara or Port Sudan area (both Hadendawa territory).

The scabbard has a different angular shape and not like those typically made in Kassala. Probably WW2 and later era scabbards had thin wood next to the blade, then covered with cloth and on to was usually goatskin. (Since at least the 1980s they have used cardboard rather than wood.) I'd guess that the goatskin was in bad shape and removed or may have been in a stage of rehab when collected.

Bottom line guess. Probably assembled between in the 1920s-30s.

Ed
Edster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2014, 10:00 AM   #9
Wisram
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Default

Thank you Ed for your comments.
Is the combination of an Ethiopian blade on a Sudanese Hilt common? Does it make it any less "Kaskara"?
Wisram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2014, 12:40 PM   #10
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisram
Thank you Ed for your comments.
Is the combination of an Ethiopian blade on a Sudanese Hilt common? Does it make it any less "Kaskara"?
A good question, that required a somewhat convoluted answer!

First of all 'kaskara' is something of a collectors' invention. You might enjoy this article I wrote a while ago which lays out the history of the term.

Generally speaking the kaskara form, as with the takouba to the west, are defined by their characteristic hilts. As the blades were often imported and in a variety of styles a purely blade based classification is quite difficult. Local terms tend to exist for different blades, usually focused around the number of fullers, but the hilt remains the defining characteristic.

So, in my view, using a blade that was produced in Europe, probably under contract from one of the Armenian arms suppliers who were active in Abyssinia in the 19th century, to be hilted and used in Abyssinia and then likely captured and subsequently rehilted in the Sudan, does not make it any less of a 'kaskara'.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2014, 12:35 PM   #11
Andreas
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ionian Islands, Greece
Posts: 96
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edster
Wisram,

Nice kaskara. I'll defer to Iain on the blade. Looks old. The grip has a space at the top to attach the missing Beja/Hadendawa tassle so its from Eastern Sudan or the Beja parts of Eritrea.

Is the cross guard chisel pointed? If so and looks like one piece construction its was probably made in mid-20th. Cent in Kassala where it one-piece unit was developed. If its welded together it could be earlier and made in Sennar (on the Nile) or Atbara or Port Sudan area (both Hadendawa territory).


Ed
Hello Ed,
Interesting information on the cross guards. I would like to point your attention to a report by a French civil servant, Frederic-Benoit Garnier, First Dragoman of the French Consulate in Egypt, published in 1871 in "Le Soudan: Ses rapport avec le commerce Europeen" (The Sudan: Its relation to European commerce):

Through Suakin, indigenous merchants and some foreign traders, mostly Greeks, import (In Kassala) from Egypt manufactured products… (Follows a list of goods)… blades and cross guards of German manufacture. These swords (seifs) have a distinctive form; they are long, straight and double edged, reminding one of medieval double edged swords.
(Translated from the French)
Regards,
Andreas
Andreas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2014, 12:51 PM   #12
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Thanks for posting that source Andreas. Very interesting. :-)
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2014, 02:14 PM   #13
Wisram
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Default

Thank you again Iain. I read your comprehensive and interesting article and learned.
Thanks Andreas for your comment.
Ed, Since I havn't seen a 3D Kaskara before I am not sure where to look for the "chisel pointed" form, it does have hints on both angles of the guard but
I add two more photos for you to see, if that's OK.
Attached Images
  
Wisram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2014, 06:00 PM   #14
Edster
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 408
Default

Andreas: Thanks for the reference to German cross-guards. That's new to me. Wonder what they looked like. The 1871 date could help date some earlier swords that we now have to guess about.

Wisram: great photos of the cross-guard. I'd call it the chisel form favored from Sennar. Not that it was made there, but likely. Could be fairly old.

Picture of the Funj sultan with kaskara sword from 1821 at the link below. The scabbard has a profile similar to yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sennar_...ennar_1821.jpg

Here's a possible scenario for the history of your sword. Blade imported into Abyssinia in mid-19 century and made into a sword of the local style. In March 1889 there was a big battle at Gallabat/Metemma between Mahdist forces (85k force) vs. Abyssinian Emperor Yohannes IV (130k force). Mahdist forces won and Yohannes killed. Along with Yohannes' head, your sword was taken as a war trophy. Sword was taken to Sennar, maybe 90 miles away from the battlefield and put into kaskara dress along with Sennar style cross guard. The silver grip is top quality, but the sword has been used over time.

In 1940/41 British and Italian forces clashed in the Gallatbat border area, and the reported (British soldier ?) got the sword in the Sennar area and brought it back to the UK.

Top shelf sword.

Ed
Edster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th December 2014, 09:42 AM   #15
Wisram
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Default

Ed, this is a great scenario (I loved it and can't wait for the film), thank you very much and thank you all for sharing your knowledge and observations so generously.
Wisram is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.