German Executioner's sword Early 17TH century ?

Cerjak · 7th April 2017, 09:16 PM

German Executioner's sword Early 17TH century ?
O.L. 118 cm ; blade L. 92.5 cm; blade width at hilt 6.5 cm.
Any comment on it would be welcome

Best
Cerjak

Jim McDougall · 7th April 2017, 10:12 PM

Another interesting example Jean Luc!
These 'executioner' swords have had some pretty fascinating discussions over the past few years here. I think the most intriguing dilemma has been with regard to the three holes in the tips of the blades. It seems the most widely held has been that these were in essence with reference to the trefoil (dreipass) which it is said were placed in the blade to release evil which had been absorbed with the dispatch of criminals and such notion .

While considerable thought has been placed pragmatically toward these swords and their use and decoration, it seems that largely these were actually 'swords of justice' signifying that power as a bearing or sword of state. These were present among regalia and ceremonial items of various principalities, kingdoms and duchies in Europe. The actual use of these and to what degree has been debated, suggesting that by 17th century, this means of execution was not actually as widely employed as thought.
In various cases, the officials in these principalities when presiding in a formal setting would have had swords such as these in key visibility. With the Westphalian 'Vehmic courts', it is less clear how these might have been used or in place.

One such sword had these words inscribed:
"...when I raise this sword, I wish the sinner everlasting life.
The lords judge evil and I execute their judgement".
from "Tortures and Punishment"
Royal Armouries, p.19
With the Westphalian tribunals, it is unclear just how the condemned were actually dispatched, but by 'vigilante' type action or hanging most likely .
Whatever the case, the sword was a traditional vestige which conveyed the power of life and death held by these courts and their judges. The three hole symbolism was an embellishment to further dramatize these circumstances.

Some of the interesting examples have decoration and symbols such as the gallows and wheel (from 'breaking on a wheel') and various religious and judicial sorts of phrases and words. Many could be attributed to the secretive and esoteric tribunals in Germany known as the Vehdic courts or Free Judges.

This example seems quite original with the leather wrap still somewhat intact over the cord wrapped grip. It seems of the quite standard form of these swords with rebated blade, three holes near blade tip, and the gallows and other marks in latten.

fernando · 8th April 2017, 07:26 PM

Bonjour Jean-Luc,
The grip and pommel of your sword looks (to me) similar to one kept in the Schweizerischen Museum, said to be German from around 1600.
We can see that these blades may also be free of any allegoric decoration, which makes them be confused with two handed fighting swords as, while most of them do not have worthless pointed blades, they always have a cross guard, which purpose i fail to understand, unless an esthetical one.
We also see out there these blade ends with no (three) holes and also those with one plain single hole, said to be there for hanging the sword.
Obviously these swords, not serving a fighting purpose, hardly fit into weapons typology, although i wouldn't mind owning one in my little collection

.

.

NeilUK · 9th April 2017, 02:05 PM

An excellent example, Jean-Luc, of a 'sword of justice' or executioner's sword. I think that it is more likely to have been an actual executioner's sword rather than a 'bearing sword' for two reasons: the inlaid design of the gallows and the very 'used' condition; a bearing sword would surely have been kept in better condition. As for Fernando's comment about the cross-guard: it could serve to prevent the user's hands from slipping down onto the blade, and also if the recipient of justice (the victim/criminal) is sentenced to 'die by the sword' then the instrument has to look like a sword! even if it is not a real weapon. Just my thoughts.
Best regards,
Neil

Cerjak · 9th April 2017, 08:23 PM

Thank you all for your comments ,
Yes I do think that this sword is a real weapon rather than a 'bearing sword'.
Fernando thank you for the scan.
Best
Cerjak

Philip · 11th April 2017, 06:54 AM

There are a relatively small number of extremely well-appointed versions of the classic Germanic / Central European "heading sword" -- with intricately engraved or etched blades, gilt-bronze guards and pommels, and wire braid wrapping with Turks' head knotting on the grips (of the sort common on civilian rapiers and similar swords). These, which tend to show no signs of repeated sharpening or extensive wear, were undoubtedly the "Swords of Justice" paraded before judicial officials as symbols of office. An outstanding example sold at Sothebys Summers Place (West Sussex), 7 Dec. 1998 (Lot 3050). More recently, a slightly more lavish one, with scabbard, was featured by Peter Finer at his Ilmington, Warwickshire gallery.

I agree that the example posted in this thread is almost certainly an executioner's implement, judging from its starkly utilitarian finish. Quite an impressive thing, clearly designed to do a specific task with great efficiency.

fernando · 14th April 2017, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... The actual use of these and to what degree has been debated, suggesting that by 17th century, this means of execution was not actually as widely employed as thought...

This being one perspective, Jim. Looking at records of executions by the sword in a city of a small European country, for one, between the XV and XVIII centuries, the numbers shown for the 1700's far from from being scarce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilUK

...As for Fernando's comment about the cross-guard: it could serve to prevent the user's hands from slipping down onto the blade, and also if the recipient of justice (the victim/criminal) is sentenced to 'die by the sword' then the instrument has to look like a sword! even if it is not a real weapon. Just my thoughts.

I wouldn't go for the first theory, Neil; the gesture applied in these 'non weapon' swords is not that of thrusting, hence no slipping down taking place. But i would well accept the second suggestion, as making good sense. Actually it is rather plausible that middle age executions were performed with ordinary swords, these 'fashionable' implements having not yet been developed.
Even in such later years these things were not compelled to follow period styling, as represented by an example kept in the Oporto Military Museum, which hosts the Araújo collection. See the swordish hilt and the face to face half moon symbols in the ricasso, a posture away from simbolizing the sordid purposes of these things.

.

Jim McDougall · 20th April 2017, 07:54 AM

[QUOTE=fernando]This being one perspective, Jim. Looking at records of executions by the sword in a city of a small European country, for one, between the XV and XVIII centuries, the numbers shown for the 1700's far from from being scarce.

Fernando sorry I missed this, and not responding. Actually in further checking I found you are quite right, the numbers of cases of this form of capital punishment are far more prevalent in Europe than I had thought in the 18th century. It does seem they were situated more in the East European sectors but that may not be entirely accurate.

Philip · 21st April 2017, 07:46 AM

1. In some places and times, decapitation with a sword was reserved for condemned persons of noble lineage. Pre-revolutionary France was one example; commoners were put to death by hanging, breaking on the wheel, or other means. (French swordsmen were famed for their skill and their job was often handed down through generations, the Sansons were perhaps the most renowned). I'm sure the backstory of Anne Boleyn's unfortunate demise is well known to readers so I won't relate it again here. Interesting to note that in Switzerland, a land of non-royal government, this distinction was not made -- Peter Nied in "Scharf Gerichtet" (SCHWERT UND KLINGE, Vol. 13, 2011, pp 96-7) notes that the last Swiss witch executed with a sword met her end in 1782.

2. The different German states switched to the ax, or guillotine (Fallbeil) at various times during the 19th cent., the last beheading with sword was in Munich in 1854, and it was a public event (refer to above article). You can compare this with some oriental countries like Thailand and China, which continued that practice in public until the early 20th cent., and of course Saudi Arabia at present.

Cerjak · 26th August 2017, 08:41 PM

In the GRAVENSTEEN castle in Gent.
There is 7 Executioner swords in the GRAVENSTEEN castle but no one with holes on the tip.

Roland_M · 28th August 2017, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I think the most intriguing dilemma has been with regard to the three holes in the tips of the blades.

It was forbidden, to use an executioner's sword in a honest combat, because it was an impure/dishonest weapon.

The three holes are there to prevent a sharpening of the useless point.

This executioner's sword is real and had been fullfilled its purpose.

Roland

fernando · 28th August 2017, 11:37 AM

A good explanation Roland, although there are others; those not with a practical purpose but just a symbolic meaning...
And ... what about these swords with only one hole; such one said by some to be for purposes of hanging them on the armoury wall ?

CutlassCollector · 28th August 2017, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

A good explanation Roland, although there are others; those not with a practical purpose but just a symbolic meaning...
And ... what about these swords with only one hole; such one said by some to be for purposes of hanging them on the armoury wall ?

This may be a bit far out.
But could the holes in the tip have been there to make a sound. You can imagine the moment of silence in the crowd just before the strike so an improved 'swish' noise may add to the drama.

CC

fernando · 28th August 2017, 01:04 PM

Listen to what may be heard through the grapevine about the holes:

- Preventing the tip from being reshaped into a mundane weapon of war ?
- Such holes would not likely prevent you from reshaping the blade into a piercing tip.

- That they were for adding weights to the tip for a heavier swing ?
- Certainly such adjustments would be unnecessary and clunky.

- Making the blade whistle for dramatic effect ?
- Is it not an implausible fantasy ?

- That they symbolically represent the Holly Trinity or are purely decorative ?
- Up to the extreme extent in that sunlight may be seen through the holes by the audience, implying the executioner is acting on behalf of God...

And the one i fancy more:

- There aren't zillions of these swords out there; and the ones with the three holes seem to be all German ... all from te same date range.
- Could one infer that they were all made by the same blade smith and the three holes were his maker's mark ?

7th April 2017, 09:16 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	German Executioner's sword Early 17TH century ? German Executioner's sword Early 17TH century ? O.L. 118 cm ; blade L. 92.5 cm; blade width at hilt 6.5 cm. Any comment on it would be welcome Best Cerjak Attached Images

7th April 2017, 10:12 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Another interesting example Jean Luc! These 'executioner' swords have had some pretty fascinating discussions over the past few years here. I think the most intriguing dilemma has been with regard to the three holes in the tips of the blades. It seems the most widely held has been that these were in essence with reference to the trefoil (dreipass) which it is said were placed in the blade to release evil which had been absorbed with the dispatch of criminals and such notion . While considerable thought has been placed pragmatically toward these swords and their use and decoration, it seems that largely these were actually 'swords of justice' signifying that power as a bearing or sword of state. These were present among regalia and ceremonial items of various principalities, kingdoms and duchies in Europe. The actual use of these and to what degree has been debated, suggesting that by 17th century, this means of execution was not actually as widely employed as thought. In various cases, the officials in these principalities when presiding in a formal setting would have had swords such as these in key visibility. With the Westphalian 'Vehmic courts', it is less clear how these might have been used or in place. One such sword had these words inscribed: "...when I raise this sword, I wish the sinner everlasting life. The lords judge evil and I execute their judgement". from "Tortures and Punishment" Royal Armouries, p.19 With the Westphalian tribunals, it is unclear just how the condemned were actually dispatched, but by 'vigilante' type action or hanging most likely . Whatever the case, the sword was a traditional vestige which conveyed the power of life and death held by these courts and their judges. The three hole symbolism was an embellishment to further dramatize these circumstances. Some of the interesting examples have decoration and symbols such as the gallows and wheel (from 'breaking on a wheel') and various religious and judicial sorts of phrases and words. Many could be attributed to the secretive and esoteric tribunals in Germany known as the Vehdic courts or Free Judges. This example seems quite original with the leather wrap still somewhat intact over the cord wrapped grip. It seems of the quite standard form of these swords with rebated blade, three holes near blade tip, and the gallows and other marks in latten. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 7th April 2017 at 10:33 PM.

8th April 2017, 07:26 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Bonjour Jean-Luc, The grip and pommel of your sword looks (to me) similar to one kept in the Schweizerischen Museum, said to be German from around 1600. We can see that these blades may also be free of any allegoric decoration, which makes them be confused with two handed fighting swords as, while most of them do not have worthless pointed blades, they always have a cross guard, which purpose i fail to understand, unless an esthetical one. We also see out there these blade ends with no (three) holes and also those with one plain single hole, said to be there for hanging the sword. Obviously these swords, not serving a fighting purpose, hardly fit into weapons typology, although i wouldn't mind owning one in my little collection . . Attached Images

11th April 2017, 06:54 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Judicial regalia or executioner's tool? There are a relatively small number of extremely well-appointed versions of the classic Germanic / Central European "heading sword" -- with intricately engraved or etched blades, gilt-bronze guards and pommels, and wire braid wrapping with Turks' head knotting on the grips (of the sort common on civilian rapiers and similar swords). These, which tend to show no signs of repeated sharpening or extensive wear, were undoubtedly the "Swords of Justice" paraded before judicial officials as symbols of office. An outstanding example sold at Sothebys Summers Place (West Sussex), 7 Dec. 1998 (Lot 3050). More recently, a slightly more lavish one, with scabbard, was featured by Peter Finer at his Ilmington, Warwickshire gallery. I agree that the example posted in this thread is almost certainly an executioner's implement, judging from its starkly utilitarian finish. Quite an impressive thing, clearly designed to do a specific task with great efficiency.

21st April 2017, 07:46 AM	#9
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Some notes on the use of the sword in executions 1. In some places and times, decapitation with a sword was reserved for condemned persons of noble lineage. Pre-revolutionary France was one example; commoners were put to death by hanging, breaking on the wheel, or other means. (French swordsmen were famed for their skill and their job was often handed down through generations, the Sansons were perhaps the most renowned). I'm sure the backstory of Anne Boleyn's unfortunate demise is well known to readers so I won't relate it again here. Interesting to note that in Switzerland, a land of non-royal government, this distinction was not made -- Peter Nied in "Scharf Gerichtet" (SCHWERT UND KLINGE, Vol. 13, 2011, pp 96-7) notes that the last Swiss witch executed with a sword met her end in 1782. 2. The different German states switched to the ax, or guillotine (Fallbeil) at various times during the 19th cent., the last beheading with sword was in Munich in 1854, and it was a public event (refer to above article). You can compare this with some oriental countries like Thailand and China, which continued that practice in public until the early 20th cent., and of course Saudi Arabia at present.

9th April 2017, 02:05 PM	#4
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	An excellent example, Jean-Luc, of a 'sword of justice' or executioner's sword. I think that it is more likely to have been an actual executioner's sword rather than a 'bearing sword' for two reasons: the inlaid design of the gallows and the very 'used' condition; a bearing sword would surely have been kept in better condition. As for Fernando's comment about the cross-guard: it could serve to prevent the user's hands from slipping down onto the blade, and also if the recipient of justice (the victim/criminal) is sentenced to 'die by the sword' then the instrument has to look like a sword! even if it is not a real weapon. Just my thoughts. Best regards, Neil

9th April 2017, 08:23 PM	#5
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Thank you all for your comments , Yes I do think that this sword is a real weapon rather than a 'bearing sword'. Fernando thank you for the scan. Best Cerjak

20th April 2017, 07:54 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	[QUOTE=fernando]This being one perspective, Jim. Looking at records of executions by the sword in a city of a small European country, for one, between the XV and XVIII centuries, the numbers shown for the 1700's far from from being scarce. Fernando sorry I missed this, and not responding. Actually in further checking I found you are quite right, the numbers of cases of this form of capital punishment are far more prevalent in Europe than I had thought in the 18th century. It does seem they were situated more in the East European sectors but that may not be entirely accurate.

26th August 2017, 08:41 PM	#10
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	In the GRAVENSTEEN castle in Gent. In the GRAVENSTEEN castle in Gent. There is 7 Executioner swords in the GRAVENSTEEN castle but no one with holes on the tip. Attached Images

28th August 2017, 11:37 AM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A good explanation Roland, although there are others; those not with a practical purpose but just a symbolic meaning... And ... what about these swords with only one hole; such one said by some to be for purposes of hanging them on the armoury wall ?

28th August 2017, 01:04 PM	#14
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Listen to what may be heard through the grapevine about the holes: - Preventing the tip from being reshaped into a mundane weapon of war ? - Such holes would not likely prevent you from reshaping the blade into a piercing tip. - That they were for adding weights to the tip for a heavier swing ? - Certainly such adjustments would be unnecessary and clunky. - Making the blade whistle for dramatic effect ? - Is it not an implausible fantasy ? - That they symbolically represent the Holly Trinity or are purely decorative ? - Up to the extreme extent in that sunlight may be seen through the holes by the audience, implying the executioner is acting on behalf of God... And the one i fancy more: - There aren't zillions of these swords out there; and the ones with the three holes seem to be all German ... all from te same date range. - Could one infer that they were all made by the same blade smith and the three holes were his maker's mark ?