Any Amazon collectors?

[Tim Simmons]

I have it. Is nice. The only fly in the ointment is two screw hole damage where it has been mounted on a display board. I can sort that out. Made of a palm wood and stained black. 114 cm long. I wonder why, as with similar form clubs from different people of the same local, there is a carved concave curve to one side of the distal end? I suppose we will never know? I am showing it next to two Fijian clubs it illustrate the value for money Amazon clubs are. They may not have the collector desire glossy patina but there are a lot less of them.

[VANDOO]

NICE ONE TIM, I ESPECIALLY LIKE THAT THE WOVEN FIBER IS INTACT. AS TO THE CONCAVE SIDE AT THE CLUBS STRIKING END MANY TYPES OF PALM TREE HAVE A HARD OUTER PART TO THE TRUNK WITH A SOFTER INNER PART. THAT'S JUST THE OPPOSITE OF MOST HARD WOOD TREES WHICH ARE DICOTS. IF I AM CORRECT PALM TREES FALL INTO THE MONOCOT TYPE. IT COULD HAVE BEEN MADE THAT WAY TO USE FOR SCOOPING SOMETHING IF THEY USED WAR CLUBS FOR MULTI- PURPOSE TOOLS I MAY AS WELL LINK THE OTHER THREAD ON SOUTH AMERICAN CLUBS TO THIS ONE TOO.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21882

HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF ANOTHER FORM OF SOUTH AMERICAN CLUB POSSIBLY FROM THE APARI OR WAYANA TRIBES. BRAZIL REGION ALONG THE PARU DE LESTE RIVER. A TYPE OF CLUB USED BY SHAMAN THE CLUB IS CALLED KAPARU.
#1. FIRST CLUB NOT MINE SIZE UNKNOWN BUT LIKELY OF SIMILAR AGE AND SIZE AS #2. .
#2, #3. MY CLUB 24 AND ONE QUARTER INCHES LONG CARVED DESIGNS BOTH SIDES, COTTON CORDS
#4. SIMILAR CLUB AND DESIGN MORE RECENT EXAMPLE WITH PIG TEETH ADDED AND PAINTED BLACK.MINE 29.5 INCHES LONG.
#5. & #6. COLLECTED FROM THE TRIBE ALONG THE PARU DE LESTE RIVER, 31 AND THREE QUARTERS INCH LONG, 6 IN. WIDE. LATE 1990'S FEATURED IN A DISPLAY AT THE SAINT LOUIS MUSEUM. I BOUGHT THE CLUB FROM THE COLLECTOR/ DEALER MR. GRIMM IN 2013. MR. GRIMM SUPPLIED QUITE A LOT OF MUSEUMS WITH THEIR COLLECTIONS AND DID SOME EXHIBITS AND AUCTIONED A LARGE AMOUNT OF SOUTH AMERICAN TRIBAL ITEMS. ARTEPRIMITIVO HAD SOME CATALOGS FULL OF A WIDE RANGE OF THE THINGS HE COLLECTED AND ARE A GOOD REFERENCE. HE WAS ROBBED AND KILLED IN BRAZIL AROUND 2014 ON HIS 93 RD. COLLECTING EXPEDITION. I LOST A FRIEND AND WE ALL LOST A TRUE EXPERT AND A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE AS WELL. HE WAS MARRIED TO A MEMBER OF THE YANAMO TRIBE AND HAD VISITED MANY VILLAGES AND TRIBES OVER THE YEARS. THE MOST DANGEROUS JUNGLES IN BRAZIL LIKE THE U.S.A. ARE THE CITIES AND THAT IS WHERE HE LOST HIS LIFE.

[Tim Simmons]

Barry, I do not think the hollow at the distal end is due to the pith under the hard wood of palm timber. You can see from these new pictures rather bright as the flash was on, that the hollow is within the hard wood being virtually a continuation of the main solid club. There must be some other reason for this feature? Also the strange pointy tip on the convex side. Interesting similaities between the Kayabi club and the Ikpeng club. Both made of palm wood, though they are different palm timbers. The Kayabi is a lighter brown timber and although a larger club at 1.433kg. The Ikpeng club smaller, of a dark brown to black timber is 1.628kg. Like combatants in other parts of the world. Conflicts are fought with very similar weapons of differing styles.

Interesting extract about conflict and contact.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2020374...n_tab_contents

The black and white aerial photo of Kayabi village was taken 1958.

[KuKulzA28]

Reminds me of the cross-section of many Dayak parangs, concave on the inside. Maybe it improves the chopping potential of the club if used to strike on a particular trajectory? After all these bladed clubs were intended to chop into the opponent rather than just bludgeon them. Cleaner bone breaks and perhaps a little cleaving into the flesh.

Shipibo and "Kayapo" clubs don't feature this - but then again that means they'll be easily used to strike on any practical swing.

[Tim Simmons]

Nice examples found here- http://fotoweb.pesquisakino.com:8080...arch=pesquisar

[Tim Simmons]

That link seems not working now, so I have saved the pictures and add them in this reply.

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

That link seems not working now, so I have saved the pictures and add them in this reply.

Some interesting sculptural club forms Tim, thanks for posting. What institution is it ?

[VANDOO]

I AM GLAD TO SEE THE PICTURES POSTED SITES AND PICTURES OFTEN GO MISSING LEAVING US WITH A GAP IN FORUM POSTS. I DIDN'T GET A TRANSLATION ON THESE PICTURES BUT FROM WHAT I SAW IT APPEARS THEY ARE KAYAPO TRIBE BRAZIL. A NICE RANGE OF EXCELLENT EXAMPLES.

[Tim Simmons]

These pictures are from the; Memorial of Indigenous Peoples - Brasilia DF 2016

[Tim Simmons]

I have been lucky to acquire another Wayana club. Which prompted more searching for information on the form. Finally I used the right wording and found all I need in a dissertation from Florida University for a doctorate.

The club is known as a Kapalu carried by chief/shaman important enough to be carried on the shoulder of a minion to event of use. It is a war club but ceremonial representing awesome power not unlike nuclear weapons in our minds. The spike end is used to support the club upright in the grouned by the hammock of the chief. The real use of these and war clubs has more or less ended at the close of the 20th century. The link has so much information. The most relevant pages are 372-374 for greater learning.

The new acquisition is the dark painted example. From the shipping cost I think it is made from a soft light wood which is usual, the other example is a heavy hard wood. Lesser quality versions are made as trade items.

http://etd.fcla.edu/UF/UFE0041100/duin_r.pdf

This example is from French Guiana. This Christian mission site like has some interesting stats:

http://www.peoplegroups.org/explore/...=16344#topmenu

Yet more Stats

https://intercontinentalcry.org/indi...eoples/wayana/

Missionary with Wayana 1955

[Tim Simmons]

Here now and is made of a lighter weight of wood. I must research the patterns as they do have a meaning.

[Tim Simmons]

I am changing my mind on the exact function of this new addition to my Amazon collection. I have found more useful information in;

The British Museum Publication, "Unknown Amazon" 2001. Chapter 11, One Blow Scatters the Brains, Warwick Bray. Retired Professor of Latin American Archaeology at the institute of Archaeology, University College London. He has conducted field work in Colombia {including Colombia Amazonas} and Ecuador, and a specialist in the study of Pre- Columbian metalwork. HE authored "The Gold of El Dorado 1977" and co-edited "The Archaeology of Mesoamerica: Mexican and European Perspectives"

I have uploaded the relevant pages and hope I am not breaking any forum rules {if so please inform me so I can rearrange the text} Note where the page turns. The fact is that the distinction between ceremonial and war club can be blurred. Reading this fact made me look again at the new club. Perhaps it is not as light and soft wood as I first assumed. Her it is shown with a PNG Kukukuku club. The PNG club weighs 950 g and clearly a weapon. The Wayana club weighs 1.140 kg. This club is also comfortable in the hand. The old unpainted Wayana club is an unwieldy 2.005 kg and the handle is just that much smaller and carved in a shape that is not comfortable to grip for serious use. So I have changed my opinion on the latest Wayana club, it is of fighting weight being able to deliver as much brain scattering blows as many nut brown heavily patina collector must have clubs. I could show many with it. Happy happy

[VANDOO]

GOOD INFORMATION TIM. AN INTERESTING ITEM CLOSED ON EBAY A SIMILAR STYLE OF CLUB SAID TO BE FROM THE SEMINOLE TRIBE IN FLORIDA. IT IS SAID TO BE SET WITH REAL SHARK TEETH AND WOUND WITH VEGETABLE FIBERS LATE 19TH TO EARLY 20TH CENTURY. 38.7 CM. OR 15.25 INCH. THE SEMINOLE ( NOT THEIR ORIGINAL NAME) LIVED IN FLORIDA THE ATAKAPAWS IN LOUISIANA AND THE KARANKAWAS ON GALVESTON ISLAND TEXAS. NO DOUBT OTHER TRIBES LIVED ALONG THE COAST AS WELL. THE CULTURES AND CUSTOMS WERE MUCH THE SAME ALL ALONG THE GULF COAST AND ALL WERE VERY SIMILAR TO THE CARIBS. SO NO DOUBT THE CLUB FORMS HAD SIMILARITY'S AS WELL AS THE RECIPES ON HOW TO SERVE MAN MANY WERE SAID TO BE CANNIBALS.

[Gavin Nugent]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=amazon+dart

One of my artefacts on display here.

Gavin

[Tim Simmons]

Having had more time to study this new piece I am even more convinced that it is a fighting piece, as much as may be used in ceremonials. There are points to consider for this thinking.

It is stated by researchers that the line between actual violent function and ceremony is not absolute.

From the early to mid 20th century and indeed later. A Wayana village would consist of a few extended families with just enough outsiders brought in by what ever means to keep the gene pool healthy {probably not that different today}

A community without a strong social hierarchy and the need for artists to make lavish emblems of rank and distinction. A group of people with no standing army, though all males would constitute a warrior group when needed. Would not fight in a massed battle or hierarchicaly organised conflict. War would be feud and vendetta raids or ambush on individuals or small groups and possibly though I would think rare village on village. The technology and arsenal is sticks, stones, bones and what ever can be made into a weapon.

Looking at the two examples, starting with the really far too heavy tan coloured piece. The picture shows the only original peccary/boar tooth {the others were very similar but spit into too many pieces to restore} which is as taken from the porcine jaw natural and curved. This will not work as an impact weapon

Look at the teeth on the black painted club all have been ground, as no file marks can be found , to a shorter straight point which would function as an impact weapon. Sorry my pictures are not expert. This weapon could inflict nasty wounds, punctures, slashes and more. How would you like a pig tusk stuck in your head? it would be scary? hard to fight back, then just hit even harder with the wood. When all this is thought about I think it is a very uncommon find. You know where you can stick your ubiquitous, over priced Fijian Ulas, clubs and more.

[Tim Simmons]

Some more information on this type of Wayana club until the 1950s. Scroll down to read the information on item 1969.68.
http://www.horniman.ac.uk/collection...-chapter/clubs

[Tim Simmons]

Found this article showing traditional clubs and guns against loggers in the Amazon. Ka'apor clubs like mine but much bigger.

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...-trees/100805/