Breech loading 1450-1550

[Matchlock]

Hi Vandoo,

Thank you so much for this period artwork. Although the illustration posted by you is from the 18th c. it shows that the breech-loading guns of the time were only barely more evolved compared to those of 300 years ago.

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Two Portuguese bronze breech-loading cannon pieces, early 16th c. each, and obviously two from a series.

m

Sure they are Portuguese, Michl ?
I have found that the attribution of Portuguese'ship to some types of bronze canonry must be an added value, judging by how they baptize numberless examples in Commercial websites

[Matchlock]

Hi 'Nando,

I just adopted the assignment given by the auction house; of course I am not certain about their actual provenance. Your input is all the more valuable in this context.
Anyway, my opinion, though usually as well based as possible and backed up by more than 30 years of experience, is far from claiming to be a rule. I realize there are people out there who are able to add amendments. I only wish they would do that after all! All I've been hoping for when starting this has been a lively discussion!

Still hoping for the best,
Michl

[broadaxe]

Regarding the staff in Spiridonov's posts # 85-86: cannons may well reflect architecture of the period, but the staff - a.k.a. "pilgrim's staff" - is actually a weapon of its own with the ball forming a pommel and a handgaurd. The size is about the same as two-handed sword and deployment is a simplified version of fencing (no edge alignment, no trapping with the guard).

Attached is another publication photo from 1978 of a different breech loader from the coast of Israel, bronze barrel with iron breech. The second photo shows the same cannon today (bottom), with another one made of iron.

[Matchlock]

Thanks a lot for this interesting addition!

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Hi all. I want to present you a painting of spanish artist Bartolomé Bermejo "Resurrection and the Descent of Christ" (about 1475). This picture is unique because we can see very rare case for XV century when firearms is presented on a religious theme painting. We can usually see the firearms on miniatures of chronics, technical books or arsenal inventors but not on religious story picture except of rare cases. But the main feature of this work of art is fact that hangonne held by the demon is breech loading! The barrel is similar to barrels of big breech loading guns of XV century with the typical replaceable powder chamber but much smaller than these. We can even see the breech handle.
I've taken the picture from flickr album of Andrea Carloni
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrea_...n/photostream/
p/s
Thanks to my ukrainian friend (Глеб Борисов/Gleb Borisov) who found this picture

[fernando]

Superb pictures, Alexander; thanks a lot for sharing them.
Say thanks to Глеб for bringing them to you.
If you don't mind, i will post a close up of the soldiers with the edged weapons, which are also intereting ... but not so much as the handgonne

.

[broadaxe]

Same kind of gun, real life, full size. Original cart & fittings, Schwarzenberg castle, Prague.

[Marcus den toom]

Bolek Maciaszczyk is making this very neat and rare self spanning wheel lock.
It is most likely the first of its kind with a ton of research, tweaking and days without sleep.
The first film about this lock is finnaly here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cchjjwXuVdQ

you can find the barrel here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FajYgHQI8aA

Bolek thanks everyone that has helped him with his research and the comments.

(Bolek forgot his pasword so i am posting this on his behalf)

[Marcus den toom]

The lock working, made by Bolek Maciaszczyk!!!

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search.php?

The system works perfect, it is strong and makes a lot of sparks and guarentees to set of your main charge with eas

[Marcus den toom]

(wrong link in previous post)

The lock working, made by Bolek Maciaszczyk!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtlYa...pGjs_VuLPYLRkg

The system works perfect, it is strong and makes a lot of sparks and guarentees to set of your main charge with eas

[fernando]

Outstanding, Marcus; thanks for sharing.

[dana_w]

Very impressive Marcus. Thanks for posting.

[Marcus den toom]

A few updates on this pistol made by Bolek (i am only the buyer, haha)

[Marcus den toom]

[Marcus den toom]

Yesterday i bought this nice artifact from the sea of cortez. It is a 16th century powder chamber for a breechloading cannon
And yes i kknow it looks like a pile of rust, but this actually pretty nice :P.

The chamber measures 8 inch (20 cm), looks like a 2,5inch caliber, but i have to verify this when it arrives at my home.

[fernando]

A very significant piece for collectors of this area, Marcus.
You should have started a new thread with it .
And by the way, if you feel unsatisfied when it arrives, let me know and we go on business

[Marcus den toom]

The Project Bolek (raspla) is doing for me is almost at a end.
Here are some pictures on his amazing work.

[Marcus den toom]

[fernando]

Moi

[Marcus den toom]

The pistol is complete, maybe today also a movie while shooting the gun.

Greetings from Bolek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6tekvebpz0

[Marcus den toom]

the film where we shoot :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_13RVcUIvEg

[Marcus den toom]

blanck, srry :P

[fernando]

I don't think you can propose item sales in the discussion forum, Marcus .
Have you read the rules ?

[Matchlock]

Both thhese arquebuses, just like the combined wheellock and snap-matchlock Passau arquebus shown in post #5 and and the Vienna wheellock pistol illustrated in post #6, bear the maker's mark of Christoph Arnold of Augsburg, Bavaria, Germany, on the breech.
Both have self-spanning locks as well!

They are stunning pieces of 500 year-old high tech!!!

Please note the sickle-shaped dog spring running around the wheel!

This falchion mark (Stockel #a 5812) is illustrated below. In most cases, Christoph Arnold struck it twice on the barrels of his guns.

The first arquebus is preserved in unusually fine original and near mint condition; its surface colors with the striking dark blue and the bright polished acanthus leave friezes in between, contrasting with the light brown color of the pearwood full stock decorated with dark Early-Renaissance loops and tulips or hops (German Hopfendolden), demonstrate how overwhelming the impact of Early Renaissance coloring on 500 year-old weapons actually was!
On breech-loading guns (système à la tabatière), the spring-loaded breech section normally opens by pulling back the rear sight allowing one of a number of iron cartridges once held ready for fast exchange to be inserted. On this piece by Chistoph Arnold, however, the breech snaps open by pulling back a spur-like device at the rear, much like the spur of a percussion hammer!
Another special feature of Christoph Arnold's locks is that their pan covers slide manually instead of shutting by a spring-loaded relase button!

The self-spanning mechanism is acivated by pressing a little clamp at the base (foot) of the dog which, in this unique instance, then actually acts as a cock and spans the wheel via a long chain consisting of a lot of riveted liinks - please see images of the inside of the lock in post #5!


The cleaning rod (in this case it was not a ramrod!) is now missing; it would have been of wood, most probably ash, and equiped with a tubular iron finial threaded for a scourer. Also a wood screw is missing from the rear end of the trigger guard.
A small piece of wood has been replaced below the dog.

This arquebus is preserved in the Jagdmuseum (hunting castle) Grunewald near Berlin, inv.no. AD.9078.
Overall length 117.8 cm, barrel 84.3 cm, caliber 14 mm smoothbore.[I]


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

[QUOTE=Marcus den toom]The Project Bolek (raspla) is doing for me is almost at a end.


Hi Marcus,

As Jim and others have remarked various times, this forum should priorily be reserved to historic and authentic original pieces.

I am familiar with Bolek's works, to start out. Although his craft is technically amazing, he sometimes seems to lack the utmost depth of understanding when it comes down to the action of the guns, especially in the case of the ca. 1525 snap-tinderlock arquebus he reproduced after my images posted here: I am sorry to say that he did not fully grasp how the mechanism really works.
Apart from that, the proportions and decoration of most of his makes are not quite consistent with the original pieces; I realize that sadly he does not take exact measurements of all parts of the originals he rebuilds.

What is even worse in terms of purity and science: the gun shown here is a complete fantasy piece; he only used some influences and features of an existing ca. 1530-35 wheellock mechanism! The shape and style of decoration of the stock is mere fantasy as well, with some similarities to original pieces of ca. 1600 (!) at best, so what he did was producing a crude and cruel mixture of styles combining a span of ca. 70 years in one piece and filling in the gaps with a lot of imagination ... No such original gun did ever exist, and I do do not feel very pleased to see those confusing images in my thread that is on pure originals!

So once again:
Please do stick to originals or do copy them absolutely exactly!

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Both, just like the combined wheellock and snap-matchlock Passau arquebus shown in post #5 and and the Vienna wheellock pistol illustrated in post #6, bear the maker's mark of Christoph Arnold of Augsburg, Bavaria, Germany, on the breech.

Both have self-spanning mechanisms as well!


They are stunning pieces of 500 year-old high tech!!!

Please note the sickle-shaped dog sprimg running around the wheel!

This falchion mark (Stockel #a 5812) is illustrated below. In most cases, Christoph Arnold struck it twice on the barrels of his guns.

The first arquebus is preserved in unusually fine original and near mint condition; its surface colors with the striking dark blue and the bright polished acanthus leave friezes in between, contrasting with the light brown color of the pearwood full stock decorated with dark Early-Renaissance loops and tulips or hops (German Hopfendolden), demonstrate how overwhelming the impact of Early Renaissance coloring on 500 year-old weapons actually was!
On breech-loading guns, the spring-loaded breech section normally opens by pulling back the rear sight allowing one of a number of iron cartridges once held ready for fast exchange to be inserted (système à la tabatière). On this piece by Chistoph Arnold, however, the breech snaps open by pulling back a spur-like device at the rear, much like the spur of a percussion hammer!
Another special feature of Christoph Arnold's locks is that their pan covers slide manually instead of shutting by a spring-loaded relase button!

The self-spanning mechanism is acivated by pressing a little clamp at the base (foot) of the dog which, in this unique instance, then actually acts as a cock and spans the wheel via a long chain consisting of a lot of riveted liinks - please see images of the inside of the lock in post #5!


The cleaning rod (in this case it was not a ramrod!) is now missing; it would have been of wood, most probably ash, and equiped with a tubular iron finial threaded for a scourer. Also, a wood screw is missing from the rear end of the trigger guard.
A small piece of wood has been replaced below the dog.

This arquebus is preserved in the Jagdmuseum (hunting castle) Grunewald near Berlin, inv.no. AD.9078.
Overall length 117.8 cm, barrel 84.3 cm, caliber 14 mm smoothbore.

.

[Matchlock]

Both these arquebuses, just like the combined wheellock and snap-matchlock Passau arquebus shown in post #5 and and the Vienna wheellock pistol illustrated in post #6, bear the maker's mark of Christoph Arnold of Augsburg, Bavaria, Germany, on the breech.
Both have self-spanning locks as well!

They are stunning pieces of 500 year-old high tech!!!

Please note the sickle-shaped dog spring running around the wheel!

This falchion mark (Stockel #a 5812) is illustrated below. In most cases, Christoph Arnold struck it twice on the barrels of his guns.

This second arquebus is preserved in much less fine original condition but the iron parts show a nice old yellowish dried-oil surface, and together with what might be traces of the original bluing/case-hardening color, plus some fine greenish grease resulting from the chemical influence of the copper-soldered iron parts seen on the inside of the open breech, and the patina of the stock, they all add up to a very charming impression of a virtually 'untouched' piece, a sleeper.
The stock of this piece is painted black, which is not necessarily its original color.
On breech-loading guns (système à la tabatière), the spring-loaded breech section normally opens by pulling back the rear sight allowing one of a number of iron cartridges once held ready for fast exchange to be inserted. On this piece by Chistoph Arnold, as on his other breech-loading guns, however, the breech snaps open by pulling back a spur-like device at the rear, much like the spur of a percussion hammer!
Another special feature of Christoph Arnold's locks is that their pan covers slide manually instead of shutting by a spring-loaded relase button!

The dog for the pyrites is missing from this gun, and we cannot see the inside lock mechanism, but we may assume with sufficient certainty that it, too, originally employed a self-spanning action.
The self-spanning mechanism is acivated by pressing a little clamp at the base (foot) of the dog which, in this unique instance, then actually acts as a cock and spans the wheel via a long chain consisting of a lot of riveted liinks - please see images of the inside of the lock in post #5!


The iron cartridge is missing from the breech. The cleaning rod (in this case it was not a ramrod!) is now missing, too; it would have been of wood, most probably ash, and equiped with a tubular iron finial threaded for a scourer. Also a part of the swiveling safety catch is missing on the rear left-hand side of the lock plate, as well as the originally dove-tailed backsight of the barrel.


This arquebus is preserved in the Rotunda Museum of Royal Artillery, Woolwich, Great Britain.
May I ask the curators of the Rotunda to be kind enough to take out the lock from the stock and take good images from various angles of its inside mechanism? I would then gratefully comment on the gun with greater authority.



Overall length ca. 118 cm, barrel ca. 84 cm, caliber ca. 14 mm smoothbore.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Both these arquebuses, just like the combined wheellock and snap-matchlock Passau arquebus shown in post #5 and and the Vienna wheellock pistol illustrated in post #6, bear the maker's mark of Christoph Arnold of Augsburg, Bavaria, Germany, on the breech.
Both have self-spanning locks as well!

They are stunning pieces of 500 year-old high tech!!!

Please note the sickle-shaped dog spring running around the wheel!

This falchion mark (Stockel #a 5812) is illustrated below. In most cases, Christoph Arnold struck it twice on the barrels of his guns.

This second arquebus is preserved in much less fine original condition but the iron parts show a nice old yellowish dried-oil surface, and together with what might be traces of the original bluing/case-hardening color, plus some fine greenish grease resulting from the chemical influence of the copper-soldered iron parts seen on the inside of the open breech, and the patina of the stock, they all add up to a very charming impression of a virtually 'untouched' piece, a sleeper.
The stock of this piece is painted black, which is not necessarily its original color.
On breech-loading guns (système à la tabatière), the spring-loaded breech section normally opens by pulling back the rear sight allowing one of a number of iron cartridges once held ready for fast exchange to be inserted. On this piece by Chistoph Arnold, as on his other breech-loading guns, however, the breech snaps open by pulling back a spur-like device at the rear, much like the spur of a percussion hammer!
Another special feature of Christoph Arnold's locks is that their pan covers slide manually instead of shutting by a spring-loaded relase button!

The dog for the pyrites is missing from this gun, and we cannot see the inside lock mechanism, but we may assume with sufficient certainty that it, too, originally employed a self-spanning action.
The self-spanning mechanism is acivated by pressing a little clamp at the base (foot) of the dog which, in this unique instance, then actually acts as a cock and spans the wheel via a long chain consisting of a lot of riveted liinks - please see images of the inside of the lock in post #5!


The iron cartridge is missing from the breech. The cleaning rod (in this case it was not a ramrod!) is now missing, too; it would have been of wood, most probably ash, and equiped with a tubular iron finial threaded for a scourer. Also a part of the swiveling safety catch is missing on the rear left-hand side of the lock plate, as well as the originally dove-tailed backsight of the barrel.


This arquebus is preserved in the Rotunda Museum of Royal Artillery, Woolwich, Great Britain.
May I ask the curators of the Rotunda to be kind enough to take out the lock from the stock and take good images from various angles of its inside mechanism? I would then gratefully comment on the gun with greater authority.



Overall length ca. 118 cm, barrel ca. 84 cm, caliber ca. 14 mm smoothbore.


Best,
Michael
Attached Images

[Matchlock]

Finally here is the link to the video.


The section on the 1540 wheellock starts ca. 14 seconds after the beginning of the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSyxpvIZXxY

That guy, Iain, is stating a few things that are incorrect.
E.g., he actually touches the wheel, encircling it and at the same saying that it is missing - which of course is complete rubbish!


I thought the Rotunda had personnel that at least knew what they were talking about ...


Best,
Michael