22nd June 2007, 01:47 PM | #91 | ||
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Contemporary keris are created today on many levels of quality and execution. Many collectors are happy to collect the best of these new keris even if they were created with no metaphysical intent, but purely for their beauty and execution. But i have found that some of these keris have great presence inspite of the lack of such intent. I have also found that a keris with such a presence can be a great empty container which can be filled with spiritual intent if one so wills it. Frankly, one can fill a steak knife with such intent if that is your choice. It just won't be so beautiful to look at. IMHO, powerful magickal objects are useless in the hands of those who do not possess the power and magick within themselves to wield them. Quote:
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22nd June 2007, 01:56 PM | #92 |
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[QUOTE=Kiai Carita] Better sing 'Singgah, singgah kala singgah pan suminggah durga kala sumingkir ...." QUOTE]
Bram, would you mind translating this passage? Is this a well know song and is there more to it? Your point about the changing of offerrings over time is interesting and well taken. |
22nd June 2007, 02:52 PM | #93 |
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to "some people", spiritual aspect of keris is the most important and sacred.
in the modern business methodology, there is a maxim "first think first" back to "some people", instead of "first think first", they follow other maxim "most consider last" hundred aspects of keris, but to summarize it, three consecutive aspects of keris are technical, aestethical and spiritual aspects. usually, they will examine a keris from spiritual aspect after they consider that keris has passed the examination based on aesthetical standards. normally, a beautiful keris has excellent technical aspects. but, if any one wants to consider "spiritual aspect" first then other later, it is up to them since there is no single rule must be followed. if I am not mistaken, the image of heirlooms of Yogyakarta Sultanate can be seen in a certain book ( I forget the title, perhaps "Yogyakarta Heritage"). There are images of Kiai Joko Piturun, Kiai Kopek [?], Kiai Toyotinaban, etc. imho, even those kerises have been defeated by nature (corrotion), I still can see that its aesthetical dan technical aspects are excellent. (even, as Alan said, actually it is not sufficient to give a comment on those kerises just from pictures without touching directly..... who am I? btw, if there is an opportunity to touch them... it is the honour, pray for me Alan, someday I will ever grasp it once or twice) into the image in this thread, I just blindly guess, an unordinary keris kolobendu owned by Ganjawulung has excellent in both technical and aesthetical aspects. so... perhaps we can continue to ask Gonjo to elaborate the last aspect |
22nd June 2007, 03:52 PM | #94 | ||
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Translation...
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Court Music - Pangkur Gedhong Kuning Singgah singgah kala singgah Pan suminggah durga kala sumingkir Singa sirah singa suku Singa tan kasad mata Sinnga tenggak singa wulu singa bahu Kabeh padha sumingkira Mring telenging jalanidhi Translation: Move, move, evil spirits, move away, The prayer to move evils away. One resides in the head, one in the legs, The invisible one, One resides in the neck, one in body hair, one in the arms. All must move away, To the centre of the ocean. ... sung poetry... |
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22nd June 2007, 04:47 PM | #95 |
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Thanks Shahrial, that is very beautiful (and at times perhaps useful ).
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22nd June 2007, 06:02 PM | #96 | |
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Singgah singgah Kala singgah! Pan suminggah Durga Kala sumingkir! Singa sirah, singa suku Singa tan kasat mata Singa tenggak singa wulu singa bau Kabeh pada sumingkira Baliya mring asal neki! Go away! Go away! Evil spirits go away! Go away! Destruction and Time go away! Evil in my head, evil in my limbs Evil that the eyes can't see Evil in my throat evil in my hairs and in my energy Go away I command you Go back to where you came from! The melody of this poem is very powerfull and sung properly immediately cleans an atmosphere - when sung, it is cross-cultural and relates to spirits universally. I have experienced many times the power of this song too, and my translation fits into the melody perfectly. Warm salaams Bram. |
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22nd June 2007, 06:19 PM | #97 | |
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Prewangan, Dukun and lelang...
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Kuwalat and Santet are two different terms relating to different things. Kualat is when someone gets ill-fortune because of disrespecting something he should respect. For example, Lelang might be kuwalat because of the slander he dishes to the Aeng Tong Tong craftsmen. According to tradition if you are kuwalat, when you go to Hell you are hung by your feet with your head down. Santet is a black magic attack mostly initiated by dukun santet. Kuwalat and santet are different things. Perewangan is not, as Lelang translated, mystical power. A perewangan (from the word rewang - help) is a person who can fall into trance and obtain help from the spiritual realm to answer certain questions like... who stole my keris? ... So a perewangan is a certain type of dukun who falls into trance when his/her helper takes over. Lelang, on the other hand, means auction. Warm salams, Bram |
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22nd June 2007, 07:52 PM | #98 | |
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Anything related to this aspect is very, very personal... Or talk about it personally... Ganjawulung |
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22nd June 2007, 08:28 PM | #99 | |
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Durga Kala = names of mother and son? Durga = Devi Durga ? Kala = Bethara/Bathara Kala (her son)? Mring telenging jalanidhi(?) or Baliya mring asal neki!(?) or Mring telenging bawono(?) I would like to know the "final" translation this rapal here in this thread. Then I would like to ask a friend to translate into french (or into west african local language "wolof") or anyone of you can translate into french directly. I will use it for cultural sharing. Beg your permission, all kerislovers I am so happy there is someone uploading about this. regards, Usman |
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22nd June 2007, 08:33 PM | #100 | |
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dear Gonjo, Yes, I can understand if it is very personal matter for you. Sorry for asking it publicly. please, forget all about that question. Usman |
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22nd June 2007, 09:33 PM | #101 |
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Bram, thank you so much for the additional translation. It seems to be a powerful chant. I wish i could hear the song sung for greater understanding. Doyou know of any recordings of it?
Thanks also for your other translations. |
22nd June 2007, 09:58 PM | #102 | |
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What I mean with "personal", is about experiencing "the spiritual aspect" of keris or kerises you have. I don't have hard feeling with your question, Raden... The first "lesson" for me in the past was "buying spiritual things" from kerises. And what happened is, I bought kerises with so much mythology in them. And blindly believed that my keris such and such has the power of this and this. And my another keris is made by that "hebat" (excellent) empu, and not Aeng Tong Tong one... And so on.. Yes, every keris lover usually has "spiritual experience" on kerises. But usually it is more useful to me, and maybe not for other people. Everyone, has different experience. I don't even want to differ, whether this keris is a "tourist keris" or a "spiritual keris". Actually, keris is a personal thing. What is not personal, is "non-spiritual" aspect. I knew a very good "dalang" (puppet leather player?), Ki Timbul Hadiprayitno from Yogyakarta. He showed me someday in his house, his very favorite keris. "Spiritual keris" for him, that gave him "strength" when he plays the puppets in front of the people for the whole night long... And it was really "a tourist keris" quality, and I believe was made in Madura, if you regard the "naga" relief. Is it the only keris he has? Of course not. He has even much much better kerises. But still, he always wear that "tourist keris" while he "ndalang" (playing puppets in front of public). He just told me, that the keris was given by a very ordinary man, a very simple man in one evening. And Ki Timbul always wear this "tourist keris" quality of Nagasasra everytime he plays the puppet. And not wearing the better kerises he has. Why? Just ask Mr Timbul in Bantul, Yogyakarta.. Ganjawulung |
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23rd June 2007, 05:46 AM | #103 | |
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Oral Traditions Differ
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I learnt this poem years ago when I was 'nyantrik' in Bengkel Teater Rendra, and we were taught this song by a dancer from the Yogya kraton, mBak Lakshmi Simanjuntak (she was married to a Batak man). Rendra then used it in his "Selamatan Anak Cucu Sulaiman", or "Ritual of Solomons Children" - this showed in New York in the late 1980's, so David, there must be a recording from the New York shows somewhere. I use it as a closing for my English wayang kulit shows when in the UK. It is powerfull, no doubt about that. I think the differences of the end words are not too relevant, but, Baliya mring asal neki, to me is more powerfull : Go back to where you came from, rather than the middle of the sea or the centre of the earth. When sung in english, the Om at the end of from also adds weight just like the Hindu chant Om. To translate it into any languange I would recomend the translator learn to sing it first - so you get a resemblance to the guru lagu (melody teacher) and guru wilangan (rhythm teacher) of the original. I was taught that this was composed by Kanjeng Sunan Kalijaga, so in kerisology it is a tangguh Demak song. You can see in the words that it is Islam pushing out Hinduism. Durga and Kala, are Batari Durga and Batara Kala, that is why I translate it to Destruction and Time. In the UK the Hindu community might be offended if they hear a song attacking Durga. Warm salaams, Bram. Last edited by Kiai Carita; 23rd June 2007 at 06:23 AM. |
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23rd June 2007, 12:18 PM | #104 |
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Dear Kiai Carita... your translation to English do justice to the chant. I'm sorry that my translation is under-par and in some ways mis-leading.
The way you extract the meanings from religion is impeccable. I thank you for the proper translation. However, when religion is applied... I'm think it would offend many religions. The essence is still Javanese Hindu with Javanese Islam influence, imho. |
23rd June 2007, 03:48 PM | #105 | |
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24th June 2007, 02:03 AM | #106 | |
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I've learned much from the simplicity of Ki Timbul Hadiprayitno. I met him in Bantul last March, a couple weeks after his dwelling place was flatted and levelled to earth by the giant earth-quake in that area. Property, wealth, rank, position, profession according to him are only entrusted goods from God. They are not eternal. And from that encounter on March, I saw that Ki Timbul show this strong character of "he is what he is". He is aware of himself, being a common people. His formal title, Kanjeng Raden Tumenggung (KRT) Cerma Manggala -- given by the late Sultan Hamengku Buwono IX more than 30 years ago -- is only entrusted goods too. Ki Timbul (more than 70) is aware, he is "only" the Nagasasra with the quality of "tourist keris", although the keris' sheath is made of beautiful ivory, the pendhok is "suasa" (copper-gold mixture), gold keris ring and his keris' hilt is made of ivory... Ki Timbul is one of the best "spiritual dhalang" or wayang puppet-player in Java nowadays... Ganjawulung |
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24th June 2007, 07:38 AM | #107 | |
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As David has already warned, there is no such danger here, and I encourage discussions on these mystical aspects here rather than in KampungNet, where no such reactions should arise or would be welcomed. |
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24th June 2007, 09:06 AM | #108 |
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Cool!!
Greetings keris experts,
Great to see more replies in this sharing session..I guess we are moving right on track…I like the different version of “Pangkur Gedhong Kuning”..Aspirational indeed… Penangsang – Thanks for the tips. As for the insults you received from the other forums, its very norm. Look at it this way; different forums have various viewers of different culture. Take the positive and switch off the negative comments. BTW, it’s sad to hear about the dying keris making trades in Malaysia. Bram – I have to agree that “Aeng Tong Tong craftsmen” has a class of its own. I saw how Mans and friends managed to trace the village. It was quite challenging as there’s no directional sign amidst the forestry area. I saw their kerises and find their craftsmanship worthy. I might consider them if I have a new patrem in mind to custom made to my aesthetic liking maybe someday. Usman – I know that there are no specific rules on the three consecutive aspects of keris but my preference will be aesthetical, technical followed lastly by spiritual aspects. Ganjawulung – I knew of someone who has a powerful keris but zero from aesthetic aspect. He will collect only kerises with spiritual aspect. So it’s very subjective. David - I believe anything is possible. You may have a keris without “khadam/sakti”. However, if you are likeable, these spirits may just reside and hop into your keris as a dwelling place. It’s a figure of speech to contextualize my understanding. May the force be with you… |
24th June 2007, 11:10 PM | #109 | |
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I do believe as you, the true power resides within the practioner. However, some people believe keris has power which influencing the practioner/holder. Which one is true? Perhaps, none holds "absolute" truth. It is like chicken and eggs enigma. Which one comes first. The moderate people would say there is co-relation between them, practioner and keris. Based on the corelationship amongst them, the power has multiplied exponentially. I do really want to have an opportunity to discuss spiritual aspects of shadow puppet, keris and local values with Ki Timbul "The Dalang". I used to listen to his performance whenever the local broadcaster (usually GCD FM) programmed it on air. Sometimes, I followed it from the begining to the end. Sometimes, just in goro-goro part. [What do you translate Dalang and Goro-Goro in English?] Someday, I had discussed with an ordinary dalang about something which he considered as a pusaka. He preferred to pick up not a personal example but in general. Usually, a dalang has a thing which is considered as pusaka. It can be a keris, an akik (stone), one of his gamelan instruments or one of his puppets. None knows because, usually, he keeps it secretly. Some dalangs, use it whenever they perform shadow puppet. Some dalangs, instead of using it when performing shadow, they use it when they do ritual works (meditation, "nayuh", contemplation, and so on). The dalangs have vary opinions about a time or condition which is considered as a sacred part then they consider an neccessity to hold "his pusaka". By listening to the radio, I had a guessing that Ki Timbul had the elaboration of my questions. But in the end of 80s and the eraly of 90s, he was in his peak whilst I was just a student. It was difficult to have such opportunity. Usually, I chose to meet with people (dalang, dukun, kiai, et cetera et cetera) at a time "before" or "after" their peak seasons. To whom I considered him as "pre-peak somebody", I could listen to and learn his values on wish, hope, ambition and expected achievement. To whom I considered as "after-peak somebody", I could listen to and learn his recollection of golden career and unfinished hope, wisdom and the way he has already pathed. To whom I considered as "on air or on peak somebody", seemingly, they considered me as "a student with bugget package without any interesting offered" then leading to no substantial conversation. |
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25th June 2007, 02:50 AM | #110 | |
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Ki Timbul & Goro-goro
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Goro-Goro is a part of the wayang kulit dramatic structure where the tides begin to turn for the good side and clown-gods (panakawan) appear. It is signalled by the suluk (sung poetry) Bumi gonjang-ganjing, langit kelap-kelap katon....ooooo...lir gencanging aris, denya ilang wewadhine, wadhananira kumel kucem rahnya maratani...hoooooong. The earth shakes, there is fire in the sky, the seas rise, women loose their shame, their looks are crumpled and the peasants' faces loose their shine....hooooooong! In the goro-goro, the good hero listens to the advice of the clown-gods and finds the strength to continue the struggle victoriousely. David, if you google Pangkur Gedhong Kuning, you will find a page that refers to a CD in the US. Most dalangs, have several pusaka in the form of an inherited puppet, a gamelan instrument, and a keris. Sometimes when they retire or even before that) they also are dukuns - like Ki Hadi Sugito from Wates. Warm salaams, Bram. |
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25th June 2007, 04:32 AM | #111 |
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Dear Mr Rahman & Hana,
About that thread in kampungnet, don't worry, it's all in the past. No hard feeling . Actually, me & Sepokal were continuously attacked by a few forumites before we eventually had to defend ourselves and retaliated. I cant provide the link here as the thread was dumped into the rubbish bin, but if I remember correctly, I was accused of being the follower of paganism / jahiliyyah, Hinduistic, unislamic, a complete idiot and so on. Like David said, respecting other people's personal belief by giving arguments academically and without attacking other people's personality is the key of ethics in a forum. The one thing internet communication is, it's world wide, world without border. There is no way that a forum on internet should be targeted to certain types of people only, otherwise I would have told them that they had no business being in the sub-forum "keris collecting" as they had no respect to the keris. Enough has been said, lets continue with the topic. |
25th June 2007, 12:29 PM | #112 | |
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Does Ki Hadisugito have not performed shadow puppet anymore?! yes, the character of Bagong in his performances inspired me so much. In one occasion, related to my formal studies, before audience, a prominent professor asked me what kind of development strategies, in my opinion, should be implemented in my country. One of my answers was a stretegy which could create a situation/an environment that people could do as Bagong did in Ki Hadisugito performance. Full of joy from the beginning till the end of goro-goro. Back to spirit aspect, especially, of keris. What is your opinion in how to trigger for activating the inner spirit of both the practioner and his keris? yes, as David said, the most important is "the man behind the gun". Equipped by a good rifle, a talented hunter will become "a big issue" amongst jungles' community (like in the movie). warm salam, OeS |
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25th June 2007, 04:30 PM | #113 | |
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Ki Hadisugito and olah rasa
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As to spirit in keris - I am not really interested in the Aladien type of spirit, nor am I interested in having a jinn for a slave (Khadam), but like all good art, the keris also has a spirit inherent in it, from the maker and from the materials. How do you activate the spirit? You must study it, in much the same way as an actor must study Hamlet before being able to deliver the famous line - "to be or not to be, that is the question" ... Everyone knows that Shakepeare is a good writer but not everyone can bring his words to life. Same with a keris, the 'spirit' or power is there, but you can't bring it to life if you don't have it in you. In Jawanese terms I was taught that you must use 'olah rasa' to be able to feel the truth about the keris. The way to olah rasa that I was taught is called 'gerak nurani' - which is more or less similar to the 'latihan' they do in Subud. You must learn to 'ngetutake krenteg' - follow in flow the split-second decisions of your feeling and let your mind relax and not think, move and flow 'pasrah' surrender to Allah. This exercise done over and over activates a sixth sense. Once this rasa is active, you have your spirit activated, you will find it easy to touch and fill and bring fourth the spirit of a keris. Warm salaams, Bram |
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25th June 2007, 07:23 PM | #114 | |
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In my eyes, Ki Timbul is a "professor" of simplicity... These are two pictures of my old simple man, with his favorite Nagasasra... Ganjawulung |
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26th June 2007, 09:10 PM | #115 |
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to all keris lovers,
remarkable.... enlightening me. Usman |
27th June 2007, 10:02 AM | #116 |
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If I look at the way of Ki Timbul held and opened his beloved keris, I realize that he admired deeply to his belonging. "If not we, who will admire ourself ".
Guys and gals, if I am not mistaken, "curigo" is a synonym of/for keris. I do not exactly know its transalation into english. perhaps "curigo" means curiousity. On the other hand, "waos" is a synonym of/for point of spear/lance. "Waos" explicitly means tooth or teeth. One of the implicit meanings of "waos/tooth/teeth" amongst rumpun Melayu (including Javanese) is strength, isnt it? This opinion below must need further examination since the source is not expertise nor prominent person in the world of Kerisology. Here is his opinion which I got during my journey when I was still undergrad student in Djokja. There are some pusaka which their spirit have influence on the beholder. Meanwhile, there are some pusaka which theris spirit have influence not only on the beholder but also on the surrounding community. According to these opinions, usually, keris refers to the first classification whilst spear/lance point refers to the second one. All keris lovers, s'il vous plait, now, the floor is yours? warm regards, Usmen |
27th June 2007, 03:23 PM | #117 |
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A few days ago Kiai Carito offered an opinion on the nature of a suitable offering to a sekti object.
Perhaps we could consider this :- if we believe that there is some essence in a sekti object, be it a keris,or be it something else, is it not so that this essence is not separate from the universal essence? is not this universal essence indestructible and eternal, and thus indivisible from the singularity which we conceptualise as "God"? that which is great, is also small, the essence that we may believe is in our sekti object is not separate from, but is a part of the singularity. in the making of an offering, it is not the material elements of the offering that are important---these are only present to calm our own imperfections and to assist our own weak and undisciplined thoughts along the path of devotion. it is the mental attitude that is of greatest importance in any offering to any sekti object. in the Gita the Lord said:- "Whoever offers a leaf, a flower, a fruit or even water with devotion, that will I accept, offered as it is with a loving heart". in an offering to a sekti object, we are offering to an element of the singularity that we believe has entered into that object, thus we are offering to our individual conception of "God". a flower, or a leaf offered with the right mental attitude is as valuable as any complex ritual. but to learn the right mental attitude is perhaps the work of a lifetime. or several. |
27th June 2007, 07:48 PM | #118 | |
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28th June 2007, 07:38 PM | #119 |
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so whenever the holder reachs to the essence of singularity, the mission of keris is accomplished. Added by one imaginer curve, the curves of keris is already even. to the holder, no need a keris anymore, even no need everything as a medium in his search. to the keris, its destiny will be decided then.
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1st July 2007, 07:32 PM | #120 |
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dear all Kerislovers,
Perhaps, the last part of our discussion here is on the level of philosophy. Trully, it gives me a genuine enlightment during my study of wesi-aji (valuable steel/iron). As a car. Perhaps, from the philosophical point of view, the usage of car is to make a journey faster, easier and more confortable. By having a good understanding in philosophical aspects, it does not mean automatically we can use it correctly. As if a driver, to be a good driver, some other abilities are needed. I do hope all of us may come down to the level of practice (lower than philosophy)... some areas like "how to use a car" instead of "the usage of car". In other thread, a part of ancient book uploaded by Gonjo, there is interesting statement, "If mr so and so holds/uses keris made by empu such and such with "his purity of heart and mind", the remarkable power will emerge from him & his keris. Some questions rise after reading that thread such as... whether there is a standard of procedure to use/operate (technically) of keris? May all kerislovers contribute this discussion with your knowledges and experiences... thanks in advance. warm regards, Usmen |
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