Moro Spear

[tunggulametung]

Sorry, two letter Kaf (K) on the first line should read Ain

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Me too. I agree about the shape of the head, it is too fancy as well. But ritual and belief system sometime goes beyond that. I just try to go outside of the box and think. So how about water/boat fight? I think I read somewhere that Bangsa Moro is a good fighter both on land and water?

Hi Tunggulametung,

Thank you for showing the hunting images.

After seeing these it is apparent to me that the pole of these spears are just not strong enough to support hunting of even a smaller sea creature.
The ones pictured are far thicker and are shafts of harpoons that pull off after the head impacts...see the ropes are attached to the iron ends in the whale.
What you note about a boat fight however does hold my interest as you would certainly want your spear back to throw again as chances are boats may never actually come together in these conflicts but always keep a distance.
Thanks too for the translation notations provided in the image.

Gav

[Rick]

I read once in one of Hurley's books (I believe) that the sea raiders had smaller spears which could be thrown by the handfull when approaching another vessel in order to keep the enemy crew disorganised until boarding .

Not so sure about the usefulness of a full sized spear on a fighting Prau .

If you look closely at the hafts of the harpoons shown in the pictures you'll notice they are quite long (12 foot plus) and thick .

[tunggulametung]

How about the possible usage on jungle trap?

[David]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

How about the possible usage on jungle trap?

I had always assumed that these were battle weapons, not hunting spears.

[Jentayu]

Thanks Pak Tunggulametung. It is indeed quite difficult to decipher those words and alphabets. More so when some of the alphabets and the way they were written lack visibility and accuracy. What we can do is to read it or make assumptions as close to the "normal" words that we normally understood it from malay language written in Jawi. Here is my view of the words....

[tunggulametung]

Thanks abang Jentayu, it really help me in shaping my second thought.

So I bring my self one more time here (to revise) my earlier post (I promise to stop after another post , unless I'm coming with something difinite). It goes something like:

Kaaklanal/Kaakanal/Kaakanad/Kaaknal tuk Hamsal
Nakarkan Datuk Hasim

bold=almost sure
maybe something like:
given/trusted to Hamsal after saving/to guard Datuk Hasim? (wild wild guess)

alternatively ofcourse there are two Datus, Hamsal and Hasim as mentioned before, or one Datu: Hasim, giving over/excanging over something

I believe we're close in term of how it sound, just need kind assistance from someone who can associate it into something meaningful.

Anyway, thanks for the space and being patience with my posts

[BigG]

Originally Posted by David

I had always assumed that these were battle weapons, not hunting spears.

I tend to agree wth David on this. It seems that this is simply far too specific in its design to be a hunting implement. The sheer exuberance of the form, in terms of its overall look, its heft and the width and ruggedness of the blade gives me the impression that budiaks, and this one in particular, as meant to be used as a weapon. It may of course have the added significance of being embellished with messages and used as a gift, status symbol or as a personal or clan totem thingy, but really, i just find it hard to see this as anything other then an implement of war.

My own thoughts on this is that budiaks in general and this one in parricular is used as a stabbing & thrusting weapon in the manner in which spears are employed by hoplites in classical greek era. Thus the featuremat the end maybe a used as a counterbalance to allow for the weapon to be held straight n level one handed while hiding behind a circular shield as we habe seen in many black & white moro photos. In fact pretth much alike to how a Spartan or Athenian hoplite would have stood in a phalanx.

[tunggulametung]

Originally Posted by David

I had always assumed that these were battle weapons, not hunting spears.

Maybe not necesarily animal trap, but trap for the infidels? I mean in the war time like forum member Vandoo mentioned in another thread-if I remember correctly, we don't really care how ornate our spear anymore, we'll use anything we can use (with optimism that we'll get it later). Also I remember on another thread seeing mandau for woodworking (something collectors won't even dare to think of). I saw on tv it is use to clearing bush on their way to the river for spearfishing (recent date program)-that precious arowana fish in 'modern world' , I think they are lucky, must be yummy need to taste one before I die. You know, they are not in war everyday. I believe in the past, other then Keris/Kalis, most all of these weapon from the archipelago are likely "working tools" in certain degree. Keris/Kalis (with spiritual imbued belief) might saw special treatment since the beginning (eg. not going to see woodworking), especially as a defend weapon (this would covers defend from animal attack for example). Kampilan, I remember to learn was datu piece, but seems unreasonable, might be noble alright, and have some ceremonial/status at some extent.

Back to the spear, because they are facing someone with better arm/bullets, they need to keep a distance, so trap sound like a good solution, so at least they have two stages of attack (read: chances) rather than one, or fly for another strategy (I think they are more straight forward no?). If not use on the water (with long rope attached), I suggest it is use as a trap somehow, maybe with shorther rope or without rope at all. I read somewhere on the net, they set up lances inside bamboo barrel for better accuracy. thanks, just two cents

------------
I think it still valid to add on my last post

Brother Big, that's probable, but in my opinion the wire end design must have other purpose other than counter weight.

PS. at some degree Moro Kris was still a 'defend weapon' in relation with Spanish/American forces at that time, in my opinion they never thought their kalis are different from other keris as how we devide it in this forum, it's just kalis, sundang, keris...same thing only with their unique identity.

Thanks again

[BigG]

Originally Posted by Rick

I read once in one of Hurley's books (I believe) that the sea raiders had smaller spears which could be thrown by the handful...

I would agree with this. The spear that we see here is not meant to be used as a missile weapon. It could not be thrown well as the general build & design that we see here would not allow it to fly well and true to the target. Although if pressed by the circumstances of battle one would take ones chances I guess.

A throwing spear would have to be generally light enough to be thrown to a considerable distance. It is design with a its centre of gravity towards the spearhead to allow it to reach its target with its business end first especially in a plunging throw. In straight & level throw it must be able to keep to an even and relatively flat trajectory to hit its target quickly without fizzling away too much of its kinetic energy.

Lastly, I would guess that it must be light enough that a single warrior/legionnaire/what have you to throw off a couple in battle to keep it nice and lively for the enemy.

[BigG]

Just a thought. Standard Malay, or at the very least, the standard Malay that is used in which ever timeline this budiak is from, is usually used for formal messages when writing down agreements, commendations, appeals or perhaps inscribing a formal gift. Standard Malay, was a lingua franca within the whole of the archipelago used even by the western powers in official dealings various local chieftains & potentates. Thus if we assume that this is a substantive gift from, and , to or for an important personage, then it is probable that standard Malay instead of a local dialect would be used.

[VANDOO]

IN A OLD POST ON THESE EXTRA LARGE MORO SPEARS I HAD PUT FORWARD THE POSSIBILITY THAT THESE COULD HAVE SERVED IN THE PROTECTION OF THE COTTA. THEY WOULD BE VERY EFFECTIVE WHEN USED FROM THE TOP OF A WALL OR IN AN AREA WHERE THE ENEMY HAD TO APROACH THRU A RESTRICTED AREA. THE LEGNTH WOULD HAVE BEEN A BIG ADVANTAGE IN SUCH A CASE. PERHAPS A CORD COULD BE ATTACHED AND THE SPEAR RETRIEVED FROM A WALL AS WELL. A TEAM OF TWO WOULD BE BEST ONE TO THROW AND THE OTHER TO MANAGE THE ROPE. IF A STRIKE WAS MADE BOTH WOULD PULL TO GET THE SPEAR BACK OR PERHAPS TO DRAG THE ENEMY INTO CLOSER RANGE FOR OTHERS TO FINISH.
MORE CONJECTURE BUT A POSSIBILITY AS SIMULAR THINGS INCLUDING ROPES WERE USED DEFENDING PRIMATIVE FORTIFICATIONS IN MANY AREAS OF THE WORLD.
A VERY LUCKY ADDITION TO YOUR COLLECTION THE FORCE IS STRONG FOR YOU

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

I believe we're close in term of how it sound, just need kind assistance from someone who can associate it into something meaningful.

Tunggulametung, thank you for the translation. It's very interesting. As we say here in Manila, "salamat"

Eariler, I've asked two Filipino Muslim friends here in the Philippines to help in the translation. One is in the university, and the other is based in Mindanao. But I have not heard from them -- looks like they are having a hard time.

But with your translation, I don't think we need to wait for their comments. Thus, salamat once again. Best wishes.

[Battara]

Great points - these were actually lances not throwing spears.

I chime in with Lorenze in saying salamat for the hard work in translating.

[Gavin Nugent]

Great developments guys,

Tunggulametung, Big G, thank you for the translation teachings and notations added to the images and thank you to everyone who has taken an interest in trying to solve the mystery script on this blade.

Lorenz, the images shown in museum Lee's thread are nothing short of superb, the trip you made and the photos you took are invaluable and I have not forgotten images for you either. Of particular interest were the iron butt ends as seen on spears from other countries along with the example similar to Maurice's spear and even a blade shape similar to mine, it seems this museum has every option/angle covered...nice to see the Chinese polearms too.

Would it help further if I posted further images of the script from another angle?

thanks to all and may the force be with you too ;-)

[Gavin Nugent]

A little bump from the past.

I have turned up no more on this piece or an exacting translation but have on the Kampilan...more on that later.

Curious to know if anyone else following leads are able to offer anything further?

Gav

[mohd]

Hi Gavin and all the forum members,

I think the forum members especially Jentayu and Tunggulametung had already done great job in translating the scripts written on the blade of the Bangsamoro spear.
Anyhow I just want to contribute some little info that might be useful in addition to their works.
I don't know any of the Bangsamoro language (i.e. Bajau, Tausug, Illanun etc).
Anyhow the Bangsamoro language basically has a very strong resemblance with the Malay language (i.e. we shared words such as keris, golok, pisau, tumpul, sumbing, kota, batu, kerbau etc).
Even we Malay always consider the Bangsamoro as Malay of the Philippines.

Okay, let's proceed with the transliteration of the text written on the blade of the Bangsamoro spear.

The first line appear as بــجــاﻻن دتــوﺀ كــمــيــد
Or it might be بــجــاﻻن دتــوﺀ كــمــيـــل
It's transliteration is bjalan dtu' kmid or bjalan dtu' kmil.
In the current Malay spelling it should appear as bejalan Datu' Kamid or bejalan Datu' Kamil.
I only understand the words Datu' Kamid or Datu' Kamil who must be the name of a royal family or a ruler somewhere in Southern Philippines.
The words bejalan do carry meaning in Malay (i.e. walking) anyhow IMVHO it doesn't really relevance in this very particular phrase.
Bejalan might has a totally different meaning in the Bangsamoro language.
One thing, I prefer the first transliteration just because IMVHO the name of Kamid is more longer and widely used compare to Kamil which I consider as rather new in usage in South East Asia.

بـ ± b (i.e. it must be alphabet بـ ± b because alphabet تـ ± t, ثـ ± th, نـ ± n and يـ ± i very seldom to meet with the alphabet ـجـ ± j in Malay language group phonetically)
ـجـ ± j (i.e. it must be ـجـ ± j because it is more in the usage compare to ـحـ ± h and ـخـ ± kh in Malay language group)
ـا ± a
ﻻ‎ ± la
ن ± n (i.e. this alphabet ن ± n must be at the end of the word because it is just not right phonetically to have alphabet د ± d as the last one in any words in Malay language group)

د ± d (i.e. this alphabet د ± d must be the first alphabet of a new word in this particular text)
تـ ± t
ـو ± u
ﺀ ± ' [i.e. in the olden days it is a normal practices in Jawi to add ﺀ ± ' (i.e. hamzah) at the end (i.e. placed at the top of the used vowel alphabet) of the words to make it sound in between of a wovel sound and a k sound which carries totally different meanings such as datu' (i.e. rulers title) and datuk (grandfather) or bala' (i.e. disaster) and balak (i.e. logwood)]

كـ ± k
ـمـ ± m
ـيـ ± i
ـد ± d or ـل ± l (i.e. the alphabet actually looks more like ـل ± l but historically we seldom found name Kamil used among South East Asian Muslim during those olden days; personally I believe the alphabet is actually ـد ± d)

The second line appear as نــاكــر كــن دتــوﺀ حــاســم
Or it might be نــاكــد كــن دتــوﺀ حــاســم
It's transliteration is nakr kn dtu' hasm or nakd kn dtu' hasm.
In the current Malay spelling it should appear as nakarkan Datu' Hasim or nakadkan Datu' Hasim.
I only understand the words Datu' Hasim who must be of another royal family or a ruler in the Southern Philippines.
The words nakarkan or nakadkan do not carry meaning in Malay.

نـ ± n
ـا ± a (i.e. alphabet نـ ± n at the beginning of any word can not be written alone by itself; it must be followed by another alphabet)
كـ ± k
ـر ± r or ـد ± d (i.e. IMVHO here the writing of alphabet ـر ± r looks very closely similar to alphabet ـد ± d).

كـ ± k
ـن ± n

د ± d
تـ ± t
ـو ± u
ﺀ ± ' (i.e. kindly ref to my explanation on the same alphabet above)

حـ ± h
ـا ± a
سـ ± s
ـم ± m

In summary it seems the text is letting us know that the particular Bangsamoro spear in your custody was actualy got something to do with the life and the deed of two royal families or rulars somewhere in Southern Philippines by the name Datu' Kamid or Datu' Kamil and Datu' Hasim.
So sorry, this little info which I can offer you here, Gavin
It still has to be referred to any Bangsamoro language expert regarding the actual meaning of the text.

mohd

[tom hyle]

I've seen this same butt treatment on Chinese pole arms, and often with a flat ribbon attached. It even closely resembles a feature common on Tibetan phurbas (ritual spears)

[Gavin Nugent]

Mohd,

Thank you very much for your time and interest in offering your insight in to the writings found on this spear and adding to the wonderful works already provided by Jentayu and Tunggulametung, it is greatly appreciated and I know you spent quite a lot of your personal time doing so.

My thanks

Gavin

[Gavin Nugent]

A little extra detail from the estate this spear came from.

Master Gunnery Sergeant George Pelletiere, US Marine Corps who fought in the Battle of Guadalcanal during WWII.

Whilst he may not have obtained this during service, the ship could have passed through the Philippines??? And his position, he could certainly find space within the ships hull...equally he could have bought or obtained this stateside at any time in his life....

Some food for thought.

Gav

[Rick]

Master Gunny ?
I'd figure he was in the service before the war; possibly a Lifer, former China Marine as they used to call 'em .

Reckon they were assigned to the Philippines too .

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Rick

Master Gunny ?
I'd figure he was in the service before the war; possibly a Lifer, former China Marine as they used to call 'em .

Reckon they were assigned to the Philippines too .

Indeed Rick, likely a lifer.

How does one obtain military records to follow his service trail through the South Pacific?

[Rick]

Possibly Wayne could help you mate .
I believe he is ex-USN .
Wayne ?

If the man is real; his service record must be somewhere .
Happy hunting .

[rickystl]

I have more interest in firearms than blades. But, I just had to follow this thread. What an interesting thread. What a great spear!!! Wonderful piece. And, great job of cleaning. It's amazing what you can find under a heavy layer of patina Again, congratulations. Rick.