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#61 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Centerville, Kansas
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Hello Detlef, I really like these knives and though not antique they are very interesting. Because of the good workmanship, nice form and the fact that it's so unique I had even put a modest bid on this when I first saw it, but I was quickly outbid. At least now you won't be as disapointed about not winning the first one seeing that you have been able to acquire this one for your collection. I agree with Rick when he said: "wouldn't this make a great visual deterrent to a potential attacker when seen from twenty feet away, or across a room ." I think that this would be especially true if the room wasn't well lit. I am looking forward to it arriving to see just how well made it actually is. Again, my congratulations to you for winning this most interesting piece.
Best, Robert |
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#62 | |
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Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
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#63 | |
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Location: Germany, Dortmund
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thank you for your kind words! ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#64 | |
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I understand what you meant but read again #56 what Jose has written. And when you would turn the handle by 180 degree the look inside scabbard will be unusual as well, see attached picture. And when I understand Jose correct it wasn't possible. Best regards, Detlef |
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#65 |
Keris forum moderator
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Location: Nova Scotia
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It should be noted that the bend of the pommel does NOT always flow in the same direction on all gunongs. The ivory gunong on the left is a straight single edged variety. The one on the right is a wavy blade. Neither of these blades fit the sheath in the reverse direction so this is how they were made. I suppose it is possible that these differ do to righthand/lefthand preferences.
Regarding Wayne's comments on point direction, the wavy one does indeed have the direction of the point bending to the same side as the bend of the hilt, though i am always hesitant to claim "wrong" or "correct" when it comes to these daggers as i do not believe we really know enough about them to make such definitive statements. Just as the pommels don't always bend to the same side i am open to the concept that the point of the wavy dagger might also vary from time to time. ![]() |
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#66 |
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One thing to remember is that the tangs on these are usually curved to follow the curve of the tang socket in the hilt. The tang on this dagger is curved in the opposite direction of the point of the blade unlike all of the ones that I have personally seen where the curve of the tang is curved in the same direction as that of the point of the blade. The tang will only fit properly into the socket in one direction unless you modify either the tang socket or the tang itself. I would suggest that this might have been ordered this way by the original owner. If being used in close quarters (with an upward stabbing motion say to the stomach area) having the blades point facing upwards might help in making it easier for the blade penetrate both cloth and flesh alike. JTOL
Best, Robert |
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#67 |
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ithink i am having trouble explaining my comments. they had nothing to do with the scabard, the scabbard fit is a red herring. it only was about the point of the blade pointing down when held with the bend held in the grip/pommel in your palm in normal fashion.
whichever way the grip is attached to the blade, it will only fit the scabbard one way. the grip when detached from the blade, as in a keris, can be reattached pointing willy-nilly in any direction, restrained by it's geometry of course. a square gunong tang with a square hole in the grip would only allow 4 directions, two of which would point the pommel away from the flat left or right side if the blade, and would be highly unusual orientations. the other two orientations place the pommel the same direction as the edges, the more usual of which is to present the last luk at the point towards the ground. the tip is thus below the centerline perpendicular to the guard. i cannot find an image of one (or of a kris or keris) where it does not other than the one presented initially here which i believed to be an artefact of it's reassembly when it was restored by jose. if it was indeed made this way and can only fit the pommel one way, it would be a rare one indeed. however, the photo of it's pre-restoration shows a straight tang and the other photos show a round hole in the grip. Last edited by kronckew; 27th January 2015 at 01:27 AM. |
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#68 | |
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Best, Robert |
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#69 |
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'nuff said. as i mentioned earlier, as long as the owner is happy, that's the main thing anyway. my OCD is not important.
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#70 | |
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Regards, Detlef |
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#71 | |
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![]() ![]() ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#72 |
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Actually I tried the other way regarding the handle and tang. Didn't work: the best fit is the present one. Thus a truly unique piece indeed! (And I'm glad you're happy!
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#73 | |
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#74 |
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Finally I have received the pistol gunong. Well made blade with subtle lamination. Scabbard shows a lot of wear so I am sure that it was in use for some time. Here some just taken pictures after the piece has received some maintenance. Like said before, not antique but an interesting ethnograhic dagger with good age.
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#75 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
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Here together with it's new friends at my Moro display.
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#76 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Centerville, Kansas
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Hello Detlef, I am very happy to see that this dagger has finally been released and is now in your possession. As I have previously had the opportunity to personally handle this dagger I can attest to how well it is made. Even if it is not of a great age I would be quite happy to have one like it myself. My congratulations to you for being able to add this very interesting and unusual dagger to your collection.
Best, Robert |
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#77 | |
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thank you for your kind words and your help that I can acquire this piece. ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#78 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
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QUITE A NICE DISPLAY AND CONGRADULATIONS ON AQUIRING SUCH AN UNUSUAL KNIFE.
I SAW THIS EXAMPLE OF PISTOL KNIFE SELL A WHILE BACK AS A CIVIL WAR BOWIE WITH A 7 INCH BLADE. IT LOOKS VERY SIMULAR, SO I PUT IT HERE FOR COMPARISON. I WONDER WHEN AND WHERE THESE WERE MADE. PERHAPS SPANISH AMERICAN WAR ERA OR SHORTLY THERE AFTER? ![]() |
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#79 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Mindanao ? |
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#80 |
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yup. philippines (mindanao). i notice the subtle ukil close to the handle..
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#81 | |
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![]() ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#82 |
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Location: TN, USA
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absolutely love the faux pistol blades, great collection!
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#83 | |
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![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#84 |
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I'll risk a guess that they're pre-WW2 .
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#85 |
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I have always wondered about the use of aluminium in the Philippines being used as a measurement of possible age. Quite a few threads here on the forum point to WWII as the starting point, but I know the US Army was using aluminium for the making of their canteens during the Spanish American War. I wonder how many other items that they used were made of this material as well? This could point to items like this having possibly being made much earlier than the WWII date we have been using when discussing these items.
Best, Robert |
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#86 |
Vikingsword Staff
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Here's another thing to consider; the examples we have seen so far (okay, we haven't seen a lot) are all of revolver form .
I think this points to pre-WW2 otherwise we would see model 1911 45 caliber copies, no ? ![]() ![]() |
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#87 | |
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#88 |
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Very interesting discussion!
![]() ![]() ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#89 |
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Have just get another interesting example from ebay. The seller provided only two pictures and not much information. I am very unsure about the age of this example, handle (pommel) and ferrule is an early style but the blade shows sharp luks which is a sign of much later examples. I doubt that the fittings are from silver. Pommel seems to be from bone. All comments are welcome, special age guesses.
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#90 |
Vikingsword Staff
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I think there's also a chance this handle is of Tridacna, or the Giant Clam shell .
I didn't get to see the item description on ebay; are there any more pictures available Detlef ? |
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