What a bizarre sword! - Page 2

Queequeg · 10th February 2009, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

lol, that's a ShoKasKrisNabasPilan.

Hunga Munga remounted on a shamshir hilt and handle?

ariel · 11th July 2010, 08:46 PM

A remarkably well-educated and knowledgeable participant on another forum has identified it as... Corrida implement!
According to him, descriptions of such a device can be found at:

M. Defourneaux, "L`Espagne au siecle d`or", 1996.
Page 176

Théophile Gautier,Voyage en Espagne 1862.
Page 353

and in multiple other Spanish and French contemporay sources.
It was allegedly used by peons ( maintenance workers) at the corrida to immobilize and to slaughter the still-alive bull.
Spanish colleagues: any access to first-hand information?
French speakers: can you verify the above sources?

Emanuel · 12th July 2010, 12:41 AM

Here is the Gautier source:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=hMbQ...page&q&f=false

He describes a "media-luna" or half moon, aka crescent, on a staff used to cut the bull's tendons and effectively immobilizing it so it can be finished off. No illustration is give.

Haven't found Defourneaux yet.

Rick · 12th July 2010, 01:08 AM

'on a staff .'

I would not like to attempt this with a sword-length implement .
Too close for my comfort .

Have recently seen a horrible youtube goring of a Matador .*

I'll pass on this job .

*no links please!

Marc · 12th July 2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

A remarkably well-educated and knowledgeable participant on another forum has identified it as... Corrida implement!
According to him, descriptions of such a device can be found at:

M. Defourneaux, "L`Espagne au siecle d`or", 1996.
Page 176

Théophile Gautier,Voyage en Espagne 1862.
Page 353

and in multiple other Spanish and French contemporay sources.
It was allegedly used by peons ( maintenance workers) at the corrida to immobilize and to slaughter the still-alive bull.
Spanish colleagues: any access to first-hand information?
French speakers: can you verify the above sources?

Hmmm... pretty unlikely, I'm afraid.
The "medialuna" or "media-luna" was (still is) indeed a tool to hamstring the bull, not only in the "corrida" but also in cattle-herding. I managed to find a picture of an old one:

It is also known as "desjarretadera" ("harmstringer"). There's some modern variations that are no longer crescent-shaped. It was used at the end of a long staff (as it's mentioned in Gautier), in Spain and in areas of Spanish influence.

I'm no specialist, so I might be wrong, but it would really surprise me if the "sword" in discussion was such an instrument...

Best,

Marc

Gavin Nugent · 12th July 2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc

Hmmm... pretty unlikely, I'm afraid.
The "medialuna" or "media-luna" was (still is) indeed a tool to hamstring the bull, not only in the "corrida" but also in cattle-herding. I managed to find a picture of an old one:

It is also known as "desjarretadera" ("harmstringer"). There's some modern variations that are no longer crescent-shaped. It was used at the end of a long staff (as it's mentioned in Gautier), in Spain and in areas of Spanish influence.

I'm no specialist, so I might be wrong, but it would really surprise me if the "sword" in discussion was such an instrument...

Best,

Marc

Marc,

A very interesting post, thank you for showing your research here and Ariel thank you for starting and following through on this thread and a special thanks to your comrade.
Marc, the images you have bought to light here certainly helps my mind draw parallels to the same pole weapon found in some Chinese martial schools.
So many weapons are considered to have developed from a farming background, now it supports my thoughts in some way with this example shown below.

Thank you

Gav

tom hyle · 11th June 2011, 07:42 AM

very interesting. Seems to be Persian, and in line with a tradition of fanciful/decorative Persian blades. Seems like it would handle similarly to a shamshir?

11th July 2010, 08:46 PM	#32
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	A remarkably well-educated and knowledgeable participant on another forum has identified it as... Corrida implement! According to him, descriptions of such a device can be found at: M. Defourneaux, "L`Espagne au siecle d`or", 1996. Page 176 Théophile Gautier,Voyage en Espagne 1862. Page 353 and in multiple other Spanish and French contemporay sources. It was allegedly used by peons ( maintenance workers) at the corrida to immobilize and to slaughter the still-alive bull. Spanish colleagues: any access to first-hand information? French speakers: can you verify the above sources?

12th July 2010, 12:41 AM	#33
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Here is the Gautier source: http://books.google.ca/books?id=hMbQ...page&q&f=false He describes a "media-luna" or half moon, aka crescent, on a staff used to cut the bull's tendons and effectively immobilizing it so it can be finished off. No illustration is give. Haven't found Defourneaux yet.

12th July 2010, 01:08 AM	#34
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,300	'on a staff .' I would not like to attempt this with a sword-length implement . Too close for my comfort . Have recently seen a horrible youtube goring of a Matador .* I'll pass on this job . *no links please!

11th June 2011, 07:42 AM	#37
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	very interesting. Seems to be Persian, and in line with a tradition of fanciful/decorative Persian blades. Seems like it would handle similarly to a shamshir?