Unusual Keris Dress from where? - Page 2

Marcokeris · 28th August 2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Marcokeris,

That's also a lovely example of such a maduran ukiran. Are there two lions in the shield on the belly? If so it is possibly the dutch royal weapon.

No, only one lion with a sword. On a side a horse, on the other side a dragon

Rick · 28th August 2006, 10:38 PM

Back to the dress in question ; the wrongko of many keris is considered to be influenced by the shape of a boat .
In Naga Sasra's wrongko I see the influence of (or resemblance to) wings .

Are keris from Cirebon so rare that we have no other examples in our collections save one ?

A. G. Maisey · 28th August 2006, 11:19 PM

In respect of the example posted by Naga Sasra.

The handle is a not particularly scarce Madura style, that can also be found on some North Coast and East Jawa keris, however, when this occurs it is probably a keris owned by a person from Madura, as Madura influence and people have spread into these areas for hundreds of years. Madura in modern Indonesia is a part of East Jawa.

The mendak is Central Javanese, probably from Solo.

The blade is an older one of possibly Tuban, or Pajajaran , or some other similar classification, but this is too difficult to be definite about without having it in the hand.

The wrongko is interesting.

It has been carved as a highly decorative, non-traditional form.

Execution appears to be in the style of the carvers of Suminep , Madura, and it may have originated from there, however, I feel it is more likely that it was carved by a Suminep craftsman living in the area around Surabaya,and as a commercial endeavour.

As to what the motif may represent, since this is a non-traditional motif, and cannot be compared to examples of motifs in other examples, or mediums, the only person who could really say what it represents is the person who carved it.

To my eye, and taking into account traditional values, I think I am looking at a representation of a coconut palm tree. However, as I say, this is only a guess that cannot ever be confirmed. It could well be his mother in law's eyebrows, for all I know.

Regarding keris from Cirebon, Tegal, Banyumas, and other parts of the Island of Jawa.

Yes, examples of keris from these areas are very, very scarce.

During my life I have had thousands of keris in my possession, and I have seen and handled many thousands more. Amongst these thousands of keris , I could probably count the old examples of complete keris from areas under the influence of Javanese courts other than Surakarta and Jogjakarta ,and excluding East Javanese examples, on the fingers of one hand.

Since the end of WWII, Surakarta and Jogjakarta dress has dominated all Javanese keris dress style.

Naga Sasra · 31st August 2006, 04:27 AM

Thank you to all of you who responded to this thread, it has been an interesting learning experience with many a good thought and discussion.

At this point the consensus point primarily to a Madura origin or less likely East Jawa. The blade older probably tangguh Tuban.

What remain as a point of interest is the wrongko, which is unique in design and properly made to be a decorator piece.

We can now as a result of this limited discussion segregate the so called Madura/East Jawa tourist keris wrongko into at least three areas of interest.

First: the tourist-tourist keris.

Second: the ones brought back to Holland by the soldiers.

Third: the ones of unique design made for decoration.

Mine and the one Frey pictured in the archive, would clearly fall into the third category.

Again, thank you all for your participation. Next I will post a piece that will bring our friends from Singapore and Malaysia into the discussion.

28th August 2006, 10:38 PM	#32
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,271	Back to the dress in question ; the wrongko of many keris is considered to be influenced by the shape of a boat . In Naga Sasra's wrongko I see the influence of (or resemblance to) wings . Are keris from Cirebon so rare that we have no other examples in our collections save one ?

28th August 2006, 11:19 PM	#33
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,770	In respect of the example posted by Naga Sasra. The handle is a not particularly scarce Madura style, that can also be found on some North Coast and East Jawa keris, however, when this occurs it is probably a keris owned by a person from Madura, as Madura influence and people have spread into these areas for hundreds of years. Madura in modern Indonesia is a part of East Jawa. The mendak is Central Javanese, probably from Solo. The blade is an older one of possibly Tuban, or Pajajaran , or some other similar classification, but this is too difficult to be definite about without having it in the hand. The wrongko is interesting. It has been carved as a highly decorative, non-traditional form. Execution appears to be in the style of the carvers of Suminep , Madura, and it may have originated from there, however, I feel it is more likely that it was carved by a Suminep craftsman living in the area around Surabaya,and as a commercial endeavour. As to what the motif may represent, since this is a non-traditional motif, and cannot be compared to examples of motifs in other examples, or mediums, the only person who could really say what it represents is the person who carved it. To my eye, and taking into account traditional values, I think I am looking at a representation of a coconut palm tree. However, as I say, this is only a guess that cannot ever be confirmed. It could well be his mother in law's eyebrows, for all I know. Regarding keris from Cirebon, Tegal, Banyumas, and other parts of the Island of Jawa. Yes, examples of keris from these areas are very, very scarce. During my life I have had thousands of keris in my possession, and I have seen and handled many thousands more. Amongst these thousands of keris , I could probably count the old examples of complete keris from areas under the influence of Javanese courts other than Surakarta and Jogjakarta ,and excluding East Javanese examples, on the fingers of one hand. Since the end of WWII, Surakarta and Jogjakarta dress has dominated all Javanese keris dress style.

31st August 2006, 04:27 AM	#34
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Thank you to all of you who responded to this thread, it has been an interesting learning experience with many a good thought and discussion. At this point the consensus point primarily to a Madura origin or less likely East Jawa. The blade older probably tangguh Tuban. What remain as a point of interest is the wrongko, which is unique in design and properly made to be a decorator piece. We can now as a result of this limited discussion segregate the so called Madura/East Jawa tourist keris wrongko into at least three areas of interest. First: the tourist-tourist keris. Second: the ones brought back to Holland by the soldiers. Third: the ones of unique design made for decoration. Mine and the one Frey pictured in the archive, would clearly fall into the third category. Again, thank you all for your participation. Next I will post a piece that will bring our friends from Singapore and Malaysia into the discussion.