European Piha Kaetta

[M ELEY]

I seem to recall a recent thread where there were miniature likenesses of ethno weapons that were like 'salesman samples'. They generated a great deal of interest and praise even though they were neither real weapons, nor where they exacting in detail-

That being said, I am a collector of weapons, pure and simple. I'm not in it for the art or craftsmanship, strictly the history. As such, I prefer the 'real deal' over art pieces, but it is an interesting piece none-the-same if nothing more than to show the growing European interest and respect for SEA items, especially in the time period that the faux piha was made. Glad it was brought up again.

[David]

Originally Posted by ariel

Javanese kermises lost their fighting function long ago, with the exception of rare cases of domestic violence, for which purpose the French Piha would also do swimmingly. Still, there are people who collect kermises for their technologically useless pamor patterns, exotic wood, carvings etc.

Ariel, i am afraid that there is a rather large hole in your understanding of keris if you consider pamor patterns "useless" and if you have no grasp of the spiritual importance of the exotic woods that are often employed in keris dress. The cultural significance of these things are huge, pamor patterns are not merely artistic designs for art's sake alone but carry deep significance and purpose. That for me is a large part of the difference here between these french "art" Pihas and the real thing. It is devoid of cultural significance and is merely a "pretty" object.
I might also suggest that while Pihas are certainly not combat weapons they are a bit too extravagant to be considered simple utility knives. Certainly there is some ritual application involved here, no? These knives have a rather complex construction and often involve the use of somewhat precious materials such as ivory, silver and gold. Most utility knives are a bit simpler.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

Folks, I think the opinions went in the opposite directions, but the courses were parallel so that we could never reach a common destination

The French "piha" was not intended to be a weapon: it was made as an object of art after the fashion of an exotic Sinhalese knife. It could have been used as a letter opener, no more. ( And, BTW, the original Pihas were also not weapons, but rather utility knives; the tasks of the two examples were similar but somewhat different).

We just cannot judge the French example on the basis of its fighting capabilities, and there are plenty of examples among our traditional " sharpies".

Javanese kerises lost their fighting function long ago, with the exception of rare cases of domestic violence, for which purpose the French Piha would also do swimmingly. Still, there are people who collect kerises for their technologically useless pamor patterns, exotic wood, carvings etc. Most of the daggers in the new Robert Hales' book were never drawn in anger, they were just expensive baubles. We have heard from one of the members that the ferocious Omani kattaras were in fact just dancing props. The "golden age" of Caucasian kindjals came well after they outlived their fighting purpose and became a part of the costume, akin to the pocket watch with a thick golden chain.

The French Pihas ( thanks, Artzi, for providing the justification to use the plural :-)) are just nice artistic renditions. Any Piha collector would love to add them to his bunch of the "real stuff" with no fear of being called a sissy.

Just relax, there is no sense going ballistic because some Frenchie made a pretty paperweight:-)

Salaams Ariel, Do you still have your old Omani Battle Sword? They(the original form) are from even earlier than we thought and the suggestion is nearer 600.AD. By the way its not the curved Kattara which is the dancer... its the straight flexible OMANI Sayf..1744AD. In addition it is safer to consider that weapon as a badge of office rather than simply relegate it to the dancing prop. It is an heraldic item in praise of an entire Dynasty- not only for dancing.
In so far as this thread I see no comparison in linking it to cheap copies since it is clearly stamped and with a full European provenance. It is simply a project piece. It is hardly comparable to the excellent workmanship on the original so I am a little surprised that it passed muster when a better more expert effort could have been made.. The French made superb quality Koummya for example.. Quite often workshops take on a design but provided they are honest about it and stamp it correctly it simply enters the fold as that... and is indeed part of the ethnographic story. Many copies (unstamped ) were knocked up in western workshops of Sri-Lankan swords for belly dancing and Up the Khyber Martini Henry copies were being turned out regularly.
In this case we have a single stamped Piha Kheta; which is what it is; A project item.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Fascinating discussion, and it is great to see this kind of input!
Very well said Ibrahiim, on all points . It is indeed important to note that the Omani sayf has indeed long stood as a dynastic leitmotif as a rather heraldic device, and its ceremonial properties are but one instance in its overall historic character .
I believe we established some time ago that while swords of this form were indeed with particularly flexible blades locally produced were used in the key dance events, there were certainly many with quite sound blades which found use in ersatz circumstances as weapons. These were often with many of the trade blades of German origin .
These sayf were also well established as important accoutrements of status worn by the merchants and though often ostentatious, in the same manner as court and dress swords certainly could be used as formidable weapons if need be.

Regarding the note on what Ariel had observed concerning the pamor in the keris, I believe he had specified that this feature in these blades was 'technologically' useless...an entirely different analogy. The spiritual and metaphysical properties of the keris are well known and respected of course, and the point he was making was directed toward the more physical characteristics.

Mark Eley also made a very good point concerning the miniature weapons which often served as models or examples for merchants and makers as samples. Miniature arms have long been produced as novelties and testament to fine craftsmanship which were much favored by nobility and court figures as well as gentry. I recall when RDC Evans (author of"The Plug Bayonet"), who had long become a well established authority on all forms of bayonets sold off his huge collection to pursue the study and collection of miniature arms. While these would certainly not be of use combatively, their place as keen representations of actual arms has created a dynamic interest in them as collectibles.
It has long been established here that the miniature arms in many panoplies of weapon forms of various regions in Asia and Indonesia are much sought after collectible items.

It is important to recognize here as has been well pointed out, these examples of piha kaetta are clearly stamped and do not purport to in any way deceive or diminish the cultural properties of the weapons they are fashioned from. They are artistic impressions of the weapon seen more as a tribute to them, and certainly well placed examples of ethnographica in that respect.
The position attempting to compare them categorically to the originals and classify them as copies in the sense of deceptive reproductions is of course entirely specious, however the discussion that has developed has brought fascinating perspective to these kinds of arms.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It is important to recognize here as has been well pointed out, these examples of pita kaetta are clearly stamped and do not purport to in any way deceive or diminish the cultural properties of the weapons they are fashioned from. They are artistic impressions of the weapon seen more as a tribute to them, and certainly well placed examples of ethnographica in that respect.
The position attempting to compare them categorically to the originals and classify them as copies in the sense of deceptive reproductions is of course entirely specious, however the discussion that has developed has brought fascinating perspective to these kinds of arms.

Whether or not pamor patterns are "technologically" useful or culturally useful seems immaterial to the discussion for me, though i do appreciate that Ariel made that distinction. The point is that they do serve an important cultural and spiritual purpose in the keris world as does the choice of certain wood and wood patterning in the dress. Dismissing legitimacy of the keris because its main function is no longer that of a weapon minimizes its importance as perhaps the single most powerful symbol of an entire culture, a symbolic icon which is still active and functioning in Indonesia to this day. Even though it is not used as a weapon anymore it is far more than merely an item of required dress at certain high functions or an objet d'art.
I don't think anyone here is denying that the French Pihas are indeed collectible items. Of course they are as are miniature arms. Neither has anyone suggested that they have been or could be passed off as the real thing. No one is claiming any deception here. They may or may not attract the edged weapons collector, depending upon their personal tastes in collecting, but they might well be the prize of somebody's collection somewhere. The F. BARBEDIENNE name is no doubt a big one in the world of French antiques and one of these would certainly attract a lot of attention on the Antiques Road Show. What they are not are ethnographic arms, no matter how you cut it. They are sculptures. Their intention is as a representation of an ethnographic knife, but to my eyes they are not even really knives per se, they are an artistic representation of a knife. Also to my eye they are FAR less exquisite than good examples of the real thing. My original response to this thread was brought on by all the "wows", "oohs" and "aahs" that these copies seem to have evoked from members. I am still baffled. The funny thing is that i am willing to bet that these sculptural reproductions would probably command a much higher price in the general world of antiques that the much more exquisitely crafted real example that i posted earlier based solely upon the F. BARBEDIENNE signature. Go figure…
Hopefully some of you will understand what i mean when i say "Ceci nest pas un Piha Kaetta".

[Jim McDougall]

Nice riposte David! and again thank you for elaborating in expressing your opinions. Surprisingly it does not seem that we are that far apart in our perceptions regarding this item as you have noted that no deception is intended in these artistic interpretations of the piha kaetta by French artisans. You also reflect accord in noting that even these artistic pieces certainly do have merit to some in the collecting fraternity much as shown in the miniature weapons instance.
It seems you agree that it is indeed a matter of personal preference, though you are baffled by the responses of a number of our members to items you clearly do not favor and quite disdain.

When this thread was brought up by Antique Arms who thoughtfully shared additional data concerning this interesting item, I was personally most pleased, not necessarily toward the topic but to see participation and follow up by a new member. In reading the material I found it most intriguing and it frankly piqued my interest in a subject I had not previously followed.

While I must admit to never having any particular interest in the keris, I have never been 'baffled' by the interest of others in them. In point of fact, I admire those who have pursued the study of them and maintain the proper respect and understanding of them. Again, in my perception, it is to each his own, and I strongly support the efforts and participation of everyone in their own fields of collecting and studies. These pages are for sharing data and interests

By the same token I applaud your defense of the cultural importance of the keris and the piha kaettta, however I don't believe that aspect of these cultural icons have been compromised in any of the observations or comments here. The comments on the pamor of the keris and their collectability for the woods etc. were in my opinion carefully qualified as toward 'technological' properties in regard to comparison of ethnographic items as 'weapons', so apparently the legitimacy of the keris was not being questioned, but the analogy was clearly a fragile one.

Returning to the origin of this discussion, I would like to thank Antique Arms once again for your excellent participation in posting this data, and join the others in observing the fine craftsmanship of this French tribute to that of the Ceylonese artisans and culture.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Returning to the origin of this discussion, I would like to ... join the others in observing the fine craftsmanship of this French tribute to that of the Ceylonese artisans and culture.

Amen!