18th Centuary Ottoman Kard.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Close examination shows no sign of wootz, I have not tried etching but eventually I may try it.

Whether it is wootz or not, it is a very nice kard.

If closer examination doesn't show any signs of wootz, maybe it would be better not to try anything as etching may involve cleaning/polishing the blade first.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Whether it is wootz or not, it is a very nice kard.

If closer examination doesn't show any signs of wootz, maybe it would be better not to try anything as etching may involve cleaning/polishing the blade first.

This brings up an interesting point. In our time if we were to have a nice dagger, knife or sword made I think most people would choose to have a wootz blade, but I have seen examples of extremely nice weapons that use blades that never had a visible wootz pattern, why would this be.

[mariusgmioc]

I guess there are more reasons to the situation you mentioned.

First, it is the aura of super-steel that "Oriental Damascus" has aquired over the centuries.

Second, it is the scarcity of wootz blades.

Third, may be that a wootz blade is guaranteed antique and genuine.

In my oppinion, the fame of wootz was well deserved up to the 16th century (debatable) since its mechanical properties were superior to most European steels. However, begining with 16th century, European steels improved dramatically and became equal or even superior to wootz. Yet, since the Europeans couldn't create wootz themselves, the aura of oriental mistique remained and even grew further.

As with regards, to wootz scarcity, well, I don't think it is that scarce after all, but the fact that even today there isn't an economically efficient way to produce it, just adds to its fame and mistique.

The third reason is however the only valid one since you will never find a fake wootz blade, unless it isn't wootz but only made to look like it.

[Miguel]

Here is another small Ottoman kard

Lovely example I like the scabbard.
This design of kard as with mine always reminds me of ornate table knives.
Regards
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

In the book Rites of Power. Oriental Weapons. ISBN 978-989-658-056-8. Three of these kards are shown, all three are said to be Turkish from the 19th century.

Hi Jens,

I think we are both correct with the dating as my ref says late 18th early 19th C.
Regards
Miguel

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Here is another small Ottoman kard

Lovely example I like the scabbard.
This design of kard as with mine always reminds me of ornate table knives.
Regards
Miguel

They certainly do not seem to be weapons, I also have thought of them as fancy knifes for eating.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by estcrh

They certainly do not seem to be weapons, I also have thought of them as fancy knifes for eating.

I beg to differ!

They are certainly weapons!

For cutlery you don't need to have such long blades (just have a look at the length of the blade in comparison with the hilt, then compare them with the ottoman cutlery in my example).

Also the pointy tip indicates a weapon and not cutlery.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I beg to differ!

They are certainly weapons!

For cutlery you don't need to have such long blades (just have a look at the length of the blade in comparison with the hilt, then compare them with the ottoman cutlery in my example).

Also the pointy tip indicates a weapon and not cutlery.

I just never saw the puny ones like mine as being anything other then a fancy fruit cutter, with its small hilt and thin blade it just does not feel very weaponish
Of course it helps to have something to compare against.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I just never saw the puny ones like mine as being anything other then a fancy fruit cutter, with its small hilt and thin blade it just does not feel very weaponish
Of course it helps to have something to compare against.

Yours is smaller because was intended for a child. The size of the hilt should have tipped you off as it is way too small for an adult man's hand.

You don't put Koranic talismanic verses in gold on the blade of a butter knife!

[Miguel]

You don't put Koranic talismanic verses in gold on the blade of a butter knife!
Point well made.
Miguel

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Yours is smaller because was intended for a child. The size of the hilt should have tipped you off as it is way too small for an adult man's hand.

You don't put Koranic talismanic verses in gold on the blade of a butter knife!

While it is a possibility I have never seen a photo or drawing of a child with such a knife, in addition the blade is long in relation to the hilt, maybe so as not to get in the way, you can still cut with it easily enough. Was butter popular in the Ottoman empire?

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by Battara

I've noticed that on some bichaqs the inscriptions are written "upside down". I have one also with a jade hilt and wootz with the gold koftgari inscription written the same way.

Interesting isn't it?

It is also interesting that on all kards the inscription in gold koftgari is applied only on the right side of the blade. When you're having dinner with friends and holding a kard in your right hand, who needs an inscription on the left side of the blade? Only the owner sees the left side