Keris blade - Page 2

Sajen · 19th July 2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Hi detlef,

i hope you dont take my earlier comment as an insult. My point was, since the keris was believed to have been made in East Java or Lombok in particular, so dress it in whatever you see fit. But if was most likely made by an empu or even a pande, then the dress has to be more particular.

However, from my own understanding, the keris dress is not necessarily attributed to the place of origin, but rather where the keris was last found (where and who was the last owner). This however only applies to Nusantara area.

Hope this clarifies, but feel free to ask if my words are hard to understand

Hi Penangsang,

don't worry, I don't feel attacked. But I am with David that I will try to dress the blade in Lombok style.

Regards,

Detlef

PenangsangII · 20th July 2011, 02:12 AM

in reply to post no 29 by Alan.

I just cannot explain it in a good understandable words, but here it goes. If we put a straight ruler from the edge of blumbangan (near the gandik), the straight line will touch nicely the tip/s of the sogokan and crosses the first luk after the wadidang (luk no 2). I have these 2 pictures to describe it, but since I dont have a digital camera right now, I used my cellphone to thake the photographs. I am posting also using my cellphone, so forgive the quality of the pics.[IMG]http://[/IMG]

A. G. Maisey · 20th July 2011, 05:44 AM

OK, so you're running the line parallel to the front of the gandik, and in the middle of the gandik ?

I have not ever encountered this idea.

I can immediately think of a number of reasons as to why the approach might be illogical, but before I say anything I'll try to do some actual checking and see what sort of results I get.

May I enquire where you got this approach from?

Thanks.

PenangsangII · 20th July 2011, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

OK, so you're running the line parallel to the front of the gandik, and in the middle of the gandik ?

I have not ever encountered this idea.

I can immediately think of a number of reasons as to why the approach might be illogical, but before I say anything I'll try to do some actual checking and see what sort of results I get.

May I enquire where you got this approach from?

Thanks.

information from an empuship - Magetan Clan

Actually there are several more "sifir' to confirm an empu made blade, but I cannot tell all as forgers may take the cue to fool everyone in the future

A. G. Maisey · 20th July 2011, 07:27 AM

Oh, I see.

Those people.

Interesting.

Yes, you would be wise to keep that additional information to yourself.

Incidentally Penangsang, you have used the word "sifir" several times. I can guess what you mean by the use of this word, but I do not know the word. I have asked four native speakers of Javanese, two from East Jawa, two from Central Jawa, and they do not recognise the word. I have checked six Javanese dictionaries and I cannot find the word.

Can you tell me what language, or dialect this word comes from?

Thanks.

PenangsangII · 20th July 2011, 08:32 AM

Thks Alan for taking the trouble to find out what "sifir' means in kerisology. Incidently, it is my own word to describe the calculation / measurement.

I also used the measuring techniques on kerises displayed in Kris Disk (Kirsten Jansen) as I am of the opinion at least 70-80 percent of kerises in the disk were at least decently made (probably by empu or pande). And the result was surprisingly within the same range of 70-80 percent correct.

PenangsangII · 20th July 2011, 08:37 AM

[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]Oh, I see.

Those people.

Interesting.

Yes, you would be wise to keep that additional information to yourself.

Incidentally Penangsang, you have used the word "sifir" several times. I can guess what you mean by the use of this word, but I do not know the word. I have asked four native speakers of Javanese, two from East Jawa, two from Central Jawa, and they do not recognise the word. I have checked six Javanese dictionaries and I cannot find the word.

Can you tell me what language, or dialect this word comes from?

According to the family three of the Magetan Clan, they were the descendants of the famous Srimanganti hall / Mpu Tamam during HBV reign, and disassociate themselves from the kraton (by moving to Magetan) after the Perang Jawa (Pangeran Diponegoro-VOC) broke out. Ever since, they associate themselves with pesantren people.

A. G. Maisey · 20th July 2011, 11:24 AM

Thanks for your response Penangsang.

Yes, I have recently learnt quite a lot about the Magetan people.

I choose to reserve comment.

I feel that perhaps I should drop out of this discussion at this time.

20th July 2011, 02:12 AM	#32
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	in reply to post no 29 by Alan. I just cannot explain it in a good understandable words, but here it goes. If we put a straight ruler from the edge of blumbangan (near the gandik), the straight line will touch nicely the tip/s of the sogokan and crosses the first luk after the wadidang (luk no 2). I have these 2 pictures to describe it, but since I dont have a digital camera right now, I used my cellphone to thake the photographs. I am posting also using my cellphone, so forgive the quality of the pics.[IMG]http://[/IMG] Attached Images

20th July 2011, 07:27 AM	#35
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	Oh, I see. Those people. Interesting. Yes, you would be wise to keep that additional information to yourself. Incidentally Penangsang, you have used the word "sifir" several times. I can guess what you mean by the use of this word, but I do not know the word. I have asked four native speakers of Javanese, two from East Jawa, two from Central Jawa, and they do not recognise the word. I have checked six Javanese dictionaries and I cannot find the word. Can you tell me what language, or dialect this word comes from? Thanks. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 20th July 2011 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Question

20th July 2011, 05:44 AM	#33
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	OK, so you're running the line parallel to the front of the gandik, and in the middle of the gandik ? I have not ever encountered this idea. I can immediately think of a number of reasons as to why the approach might be illogical, but before I say anything I'll try to do some actual checking and see what sort of results I get. May I enquire where you got this approach from? Thanks.

20th July 2011, 08:32 AM	#36
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Thks Alan for taking the trouble to find out what "sifir' means in kerisology. Incidently, it is my own word to describe the calculation / measurement. I also used the measuring techniques on kerises displayed in Kris Disk (Kirsten Jansen) as I am of the opinion at least 70-80 percent of kerises in the disk were at least decently made (probably by empu or pande). And the result was surprisingly within the same range of 70-80 percent correct.

20th July 2011, 08:37 AM	#37
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]Oh, I see. Those people. Interesting. Yes, you would be wise to keep that additional information to yourself. Incidentally Penangsang, you have used the word "sifir" several times. I can guess what you mean by the use of this word, but I do not know the word. I have asked four native speakers of Javanese, two from East Jawa, two from Central Jawa, and they do not recognise the word. I have checked six Javanese dictionaries and I cannot find the word. Can you tell me what language, or dialect this word comes from? According to the family three of the Magetan Clan, they were the descendants of the famous Srimanganti hall / Mpu Tamam during HBV reign, and disassociate themselves from the kraton (by moving to Magetan) after the Perang Jawa (Pangeran Diponegoro-VOC) broke out. Ever since, they associate themselves with pesantren people.

20th July 2011, 11:24 AM	#38
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	Thanks for your response Penangsang. Yes, I have recently learnt quite a lot about the Magetan people. I choose to reserve comment. I feel that perhaps I should drop out of this discussion at this time.