MORO SILVER HILTED

[Flavio]

Well, today I was at the sea with some friends (and girls, you know one can't always stay at home to clean and to etch blades ) but I was thinking at the kris (I hope that the sunlight didn't hurt me too much ). Ok my next step will to etch the blade with lime as suggested, but there could be also another explanation. I have attached a sketch (to help me to explain): it is possible that in origin the blade has another kind of lamination (no twisted core), but with many and many polishings (the green portion) it's gone and now what I have it's only the inner core (the black one that you can see from the pictures of my kris). Some little portions of the green portion is still visible near the gangya. What do you think?

[Tim Simmons]

I might have it all wrong. This is what I see. Two pieces A and B . They are there in every etch. As far as I can make out B is one piece that may have some lamination or more mixed steels? but I think forged as one piece. A seems to have been introduced latter in the half formed blade?

[Battara]

Keep etching - sometimes a blade can be sooooo polished that it takes several etchings to make a pattern "pop". Believe me, I know.

[Flavio]

Thank you Jose, I'll do

[ThePepperSkull]

I have a kris with a similar gandik/"elephant mouth" shape to this one. Still honing my Moro-blade I.D.-ing skills.

Are my instincts right by guessing that these are both Sulu kris? (Or do I need to hit the books a bit more? )

[Sajen]

Sorry both, I have copied two pictures to see them both together.

[Sajen]

And here my reference picture.

[Sajen]

Now my uneducated guess. While the kris from Flavio look Maranao to my eyes have your kris something from all but when I have tie myself down I would say that your kris is Maguindanao but I am unsure.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

I have done some research again. Here is one from my kris which was shown in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11830
It was appointed from our experts as Maguindanao kris. When you look at yours and mine side by side you will agree that they from the "trunk" area look very similar. So I think that I was with my guess before correct.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Flavio

Thank you Jose, I'll do

BTW, do you have get any results?

[Indianajones]

Maybe you guys are wanting the blade to have something which is just not in it!?!?! Does a laminated blade make the kris so much more. . . . .???

>I know I may be striking against most folks opinion here, but from my opinion a laminated blade is most often just visible even before etching. Though many are of the opinion that any layers in iron (or imperfections) becoming visible by etching must be laminating.

Reason of this note; we are all just temporarely owners of these antique pieces, as after our death (or before) we will pass them on to the next owner. As has been done before we got these antique pieces. And extreme etching does efect the iron as it eats certain ingredients away (forever).
Sorry, its not my intention to sound like a schoolteacher or so, but as collectors of antiquities one does/should have responsibilities

[Tim Simmons]

Here here, I also dare to suggest that some lamination may well be far from special. Just the outcome of bashing up what comes to hand and standard forming.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

And extreme etching does efect the iron as it eats certain ingredients away (forever).

An etching with vinegar isn't extreme but very soft!

[Indianajones]

Hi, wel dont get me wrong as I am not against etching. For example; I would certainly clean pepperskulls blade up a bit if it were mine. After the first clean up I think I would be able to judge if the piece was created with a lamination or not.

Though I have seen some blades which were put in acid until all oxidation was gone and until the bare metal; leaving a strange greyish shine to it (or strange brown flecks/stripes!) and -so to say-in fact all history was removed. Really a pitty; piece destroyed actually.
I have also handled some pieces so heavily oxidated that the only resource was to put them into a strong acid (and no sanding and specially no sandingmachine which leaves those nice small circles, which many of you will also recognize!! ). Personnally I like to leave just a bit rust as it gives the piece a bit character. But I would also etch a blade to bring a lamination up more stronger.
>>repeated etching does go deeper and deeper removing the imperfections out of iron; just the same with polishing silver; every time one takes away a tiny surfacelayer away. And it can alsoactivate other chemical processes as oxidation after cleaning<<

[David]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

Maybe you guys are wanting the blade to have something which is just not in it!?!?! Does a laminated blade make the kris so much more. . . . .???

>I know I may be striking against most folks opinion here, but from my opinion a laminated blade is most often just visible even before etching. Though many are of the opinion that any layers in iron (or imperfections) becoming visible by etching must be laminating.

Reason of this note; we are all just temporarely owners of these antique pieces, as after our death (or before) we will pass them on to the next owner. As has been done before we got these antique pieces. And extreme etching does efect the iron as it eats certain ingredients away (forever).
Sorry, its not my intention to sound like a schoolteacher or so, but as collectors of antiquities one does/should have responsibilities

The "etch" which most folks do on Moro blades can barely be called an "etch" at all. If there is erosion to the blade i would call it almost indiscernible for the most part. It is generally done with vinegar which is an extremely mild etching agent and is usually done with a brush a method, not left to soak for any long period of time that might do damage to the steel. There has been some question in the past about whether this was actually done traditionally, though frankly i have seen no definitive answer to that question. But for the most part Indy, you are worrying about nothing here. I have etched Moro kris, found nothing particularly attractive, and then simply gave it a light polish to bring the blade back before etch appearance (only a bit cleaner). Sometimes you can do this form of "etch" and reveal a magnificent pattern. I have not noticed any particular lose of metal in this process and don't feel that i have at all damaged the blade for future custodians. No one is talking about "extreme etching"on these pieces.