Philippines Ethnographic Weapons Museum

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Rick

After viewing Miguel's site I think he's got a great start underway .

I would suggest working with and adding to his site rather than start a whole new one .

Rick, many thanks for the comments

As for David's comment regarding the possible malicious use of the images, I also agree that that's a concern.

Earlier, I was thinking of putting a watermark emblazoned diagonally across the image, to deter any misuse. On the other hand, I also realized that I'm not Magritte (paintings below) who can make use of such technique, as artistically

Let me make further comments, separately, re David's concerns ...

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by David

Before we all start uploading detailed images of our collection up to any website we should all think about how to make the images secure. Your actual weapons are not going to walk out this virtual door, but unless you want to see all of our nice toys ending up as fake auctions on eBay we must be sure that software is in place that prevents the images from being easily lifted off the site or we will see someone trying to take advantage of our good work somewhere. The image below was a simple click-and-drag off Miguel's site.

David, many thanks also for your comments

For sure that's everybody's concern (but on second thoughts, wouldn't that be the greatest compliment, one's piece being peddled by somebody else on eBay, assuming of course the scammer has good taste ... just kidding).

Seriously speaking, it's actually a very tough issue and I think there'll be no 100% safe solution.

I googled the subject. And one article after rattling through the (technical) solutions concluded with this --

"If your image is so valuable that you want to be sure no one ever steals it, then don't post it online. That is the securest and safest method of protecting your digital images."

On the other hand, one must keep on trying of course (see options below).

The best solution so far is via a subscription service with Digimarc.

The service allows one to invisibly put a signature on the images. And then the most expensive option will give one a periodic report of where the image is being used elsewhere in the Internet.

Obviously the main disadvantage of this service is that it's very expen$ive!

PixID is a similar service and I'm sure it will also cost an arm and a leg.

So where does this leave us?

I think the good old watermark will still be it. And we can add to that our own respective style when we take pics. Like Oriental Arms always has that blue background, on top of watermark. Erik's Edge would have that brown background always.

In my case, I always use as backdrop that ethnic weaving (though I'm struggling with this, as I know that the background I use is a distraction, as you also pointed out earlier).

And I guess more importantly, the "community" will just have to be vigilant.

That's all I can think of at the moment ...

[David]

Well, there is one particular Bali keris on Eriksedge.com that i have personally seen for sale on eBay 3 different times.
That said i don't think watermarks or tracking is the answer. I know i have been on sites that simply do not allow me to click-an-drag images to my desktop. I don't know what software they use, but it can't be that expensive to set up.

[Rick]

That's what I was thinking also David .
I have encountered that feature myself .

Any one know about this software ?

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by David

Well, there is one particular Bali keris on Eriksedge.com that i have personally seen for sale on eBay 3 different times.

Man, they are relentless aren't they? And considering that one is born every minute, I guess they'll never run out of 'customers'.

Originally Posted by David

That said i don't think watermarks or tracking is the answer. I know i have been on sites that simply do not allow me to click-an-drag images to my desktop. I don't know what software they use, but it can't be that expensive to set up.

Originally Posted by Rick

That's what I was thinking also David. I have encountered that feature myself.Any one know about this software ?

They can prevent the click-and-dragging of the pic for sure. But that really won't prevent the pic from being copied

It just takes 2 to 3 seconds more, to copy the pic --

[1] if pic can be clicked-and-dragged, in one second or less it's done;

[2] if the above technique or right-clicking the pic has been disabled, then it takes me just 2 to 3 seconds more to copy the pic (and it's no secret: the technique is via screen capture, which takes just a few keystrokes).

But as said, the effort to make it difficult for would-be scammers must still be made.

So here's the long and short of it according to this website:

:: How To Copy-Protect Images ::.

Most people know that they can steal an image from the web by right-clicking on it and selecting "save image as." Be forewarned though - You may be downloading an image that contains a watermark and might be confronted if you use it on your site. If you would like to protect your own images, this article explains a few measures you can take.

There are three main methods that you can use to protect your images on the web:

JavaScript Method

This method essentially captures the "right-click" mouse event and runs a JavaScript that informs the person that the images on the page are copyrighted and not available for download. This method would not prevent the person from doing a "screen capture" to get the image.

Watermark Method

This method allows you to add a digital watermark or signature to each of your images. The watermark is invisible to the naked eye, but can quickly be retrieved using a watermark reader. Additionally, some services (like Digimarc) will search the web for your images and generate a report for you so that you can confront the offender. Watermarking doesn't prevent someone from copying an image, it simply makes tracking down the offenders possible.

Adobe ImageReady (that ships with Photoshop) includes a filter to watermark your images (after you register and get a PIN number from Digimarc).

Software Method

Specialized software that walks you through protecting your images. Weblock Pro will even protect your web page source code.

And here's another primer. But at the end of the day though, it's all in vain

If anybody can show me a website where he/she thinks the image cannot be copied, then I'd gladly point out how it can be easily circumvented (via the screen capture method, that is).

[Battara]

A good point. I have seen my weaponry on many Filipino sites so far, even on the cover of a Filipino published book! (I got nothing, not even a mention on it ). Posting on the web means giving it free on the streets.

[Alam Shah]

For images, watermarking.. something like what Ashoka Arts is doing is good, www.ashokaarts.com

What ever method is used to capture the image, the watermark will remain. As users, you can still see the image properly. But if the image is used elsewhere the source would be known. Of course you can do a digital clean-up of the image, but it will be time consuming and traces of the watermark can still be found..

[t_c]

The image rights issue will definately take some working out, and there is apparently software that will stop image theft, but it requires a plugin so it may be of dubious value (who wants to install a plug-in to view a web page?). Also costs $500. More info on that here:
http://www.artistscope.com/copysafe_web.asp

For simplicities sake, I think the watermark might be the most reasonable option. There will always be some unscrupulus people, but I don't think we should let them ruin things for the rest of us.

I'd love to see an online museum and would gladly offer photos of my humble collection. I'd like to share an idea with you about an online "museum" of sorts in hopes of moving the conversation forward. I had this idea for a visual map interface a while ago and have spent some time sorting through the details, but I'll keep it brief here:

My idea was to have an online map of the Philippines where a user can hover over a region and see the local weapons there and follow links for more detailed information. Usage: you would hover your cursor over the map and you get a little pop-up window (or a sidebar display). In this pop-up you get a list of regional weapons. The user can select one of the weapons from the list and get a page that shows further examples (member provided) and has a little write-up on that style of weapon (bolo, kris, etc.). The write-up might be general or it could be region specific depending on the type. You could also include a link to search in the EEWRS forums.

I do have some experience doing this sort of thing and could offer some help (the idea was inspired by cubicle farm map I did for a former employer). I hope this gets those creative wheels churning and people offer their ideas as well.

[Rick]

I really like that idea tc .
With all the islands and tribes of the Philippines this feature would really tie the whole thing together .

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Battara

A good point. I have seen my weaponry on many Filipino sites so far, even on the cover of a Filipino published book! (I got nothing, not even a mention on it ). Posting on the web means giving it free on the streets.

Battara, thanks for your comment

I was just thinking, could it be that sometimes people just don't know who to attribute the photo to? Also, I may own the sword but if somebody else took the photo, I think the intellectual property right of the photo would belong to the photographer and not to the owner of the sword.

But I'm not 100% sure about those subtleties, so please (anybody) correct me if I'm wrong.

For me in my website, I just adopt the practices under the "fair use" concept -- I create a link to the source webpage, and explicitly cite the website's name as much as possible.

I do know that for example if a certain photo (in the Macao exhibit website) has a file name "JCA-xxx.jpg", then that's Battara's. But since I'm not sure whether the sword owner wants his name mentioned (e.g., privacy issues), then I don't dare put the name of the owner.

On the other hand if the sword's pic will be given to me directly by the owner, then what I'll do is directly attribute the pic to the owner.

Just thought that I mention the thought process of any blogger whenever he encounters a picture he'd like to post in his website.

By the way, if I can go back to the US sometime late 2010 or early 2011, I hope you'll allow me to visit you for me to see your most excellent 'puppies'

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

For images, watermarking.. something like what Ashoka Arts is doing is good, www.ashokaarts.com

What ever method is used to capture the image, the watermark will remain. As users, you can still see the image properly. But if the image is used elsewhere the source would be known. Of course you can do a digital clean-up of the image, but it will be time consuming and traces of the watermark can still be found..

Thanks for the comment. I still feel that putting the watermark right smack on the image itself (vs. putting the watermark on the margin), makes the sword photo less attractive. But on the other hand, I also understand that it's an effective way of foiling the use for bad purposes. So yes, for me watermarking is the way to go, too.

Originally Posted by t_c

My idea was to have an online map of the Philippines where a user can hover over a region and see the local weapons there and follow links for more detailed information. Usage: you would hover your cursor over the map and you get a little pop-up window (or a sidebar display). In this pop-up you get a list of regional weapons xxx

Originally Posted by Rick

I really like that idea tc. With all the islands and tribes of the Philippines this feature would really tie the whole thing together.

I agree that it's a great idea. Maybe another website can be put up to have that user-friendly feature.

For the website I'm developing, I think such format will not be allowed as I'm using a blogging service (Typepad) which has a cut-and-dried template that does not allow great flexibility.

But it's also best that there are several websites on Filipino weapons instead of just one or two or three, etc. That way if one goes down, there will still be others who can continue to provide the service.

Just my two cents

[KuKulzA28]

Just a thought...

The Philippines currently also incorporates many Bangsamoro. Will Moro weapons be exhibited? Is this a museum of weapons from the Republic of the Philippines, or the "Filipino" peoples of Luzon and Visayas who were under Spanish rule and part of their empire? Any political or cultural undertones here? Just something to consider maybe?

Also, will this include armor, shields, spears, muskets, 'modern' guns, Hokkien weapons, Spanish colonial arms, American arms, and Japanese invasionary arms? Is this a blade-only thing? Is this all ethnographic arms? Is this all ethnographic arms of the Philippines?

[Nonoy Tan]

The Philippines currently also incorporates many Bangsamoro. Will Moro weapons be exhibited? Is this a museum of weapons from the Republic of the Philippines, or the "Filipino" peoples of Luzon and Visayas who were under Spanish rule and part of their empire? Any political or cultural undertones here? Just something to consider maybe?

Also, will this include armor, shields, spears, muskets, 'modern' guns, Hokkien weapons, Spanish colonial arms, American arms, and Japanese invasionary arms? Is this a blade-only thing? Is this all ethnographic arms? Is this all ethnographic arms of the Philippines?

In my opinion, one of the museum's primary objective would be to provide an idea of how the weapons looked like before the colonization of the Philippines, as manifested by weapons coming from all over the Philippine archipelago - axes, shields, blades, bows and arrrows, clubs, blowguns, etc.

I think the pre-colonial period in the Philippines ought to be highlighted in consideration of the fact that much information and material culture has been lost through centuries of colonization and "modernization." The resident Filipino would be the primary audience. At the end of the day, it would be he/she who will have to determine the relevance of the museum to his/her country's future.

[Bill M]

Having emailed with Nonoy earlier, I also really like the idea of a virtual, online museum. Does anyone have an idea about the cost of setting up a website? I can contribute a few pictures of PI weaponry.

[David]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

I can contribute a few pictures of PI weaponry.

A few? I would think that you could probably carry the entire museum collection.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by David

Well, there is one particular Bali keris on Eriksedge.com that i have personally seen for sale on eBay 3 different times.
That said i don't think watermarks or tracking is the answer. I know i have been on sites that simply do not allow me to click-an-drag images to my desktop. I don't know what software they use, but it can't be that expensive to set up.

If you are talking about the one you click on to see other keris, that Bali keris is mine. Really a neat one with a large gold mendak. I have also seen it on eBay! The first time it happened, I ran to see if it was still in my drawer. It was, so I called Erik. We got eBay to pull it.

[Gavin Nugent]

My website costs for hosting are minimal, about 75AUD per year for domain name registration, much cheaper if you buy for longer, about $260aud per year for web hosting (5 GB web space(heaps) and 200GB of data transfer...I am sure there are cheaper options out there too but choose a reputable and long standing firm with a history of quality service.....the real costs come with the set up and programming but the level of experience here should negate any costs involved for this aspect.....good to see you back posting Bill.

My best to all for the year ahead.

Gav

[ThePepperSkull]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

If you are talking about the one you click on to see other keris, that Bali keris is mine. Really a neat one with a large gold mendak. I have also seen it on eBay! The first time it happened, I ran to see if it was still in my drawer. It was, so I called Erik. We got eBay to pull it.

That's hysterical!

[Bill M]

Here is the Bali keris
http://www.eriksedge.com/indonesian....esian%20Swords

The three barongs you click on are also mine in case you see them on eBay!
http://www.eriksedge.com/moro.php?id...e=_Moro_Swords

I like Erik. Good guy.



But what can we do about getting a Philippine Weapons, artifacts and history website?

[VANDOO]

PERHAPS A SIMPLE (NOT FOR SALE) OR (REFRENCE ONLY) ACROSS THE BLADE OF THE PICTURE OF THE ENTIRE SWORD MIGHT ELIMINATE THE USE FOR ELICIT EBAY SALES. THE CLOSEUPS WOULD NOT REQUIRE IT AS IT IS UNLIKELY SOMEONE WOULD TRY TO SELL AN ITEM WITHOUT A PICTURE OF THE TOTAL ITEM.

THE DOWN SIDE OF FIXING ALL PICTURES WHERE NO ONE CAN ACCESS THEM AND SAVE THEM IS THEIR LOSS.
THOSE WHO DEAL IN EDGED WEAPONS BUY AND SELL MORE ITEMS THAN MOST COLLECTORS OR MUSEUMS WILL LIKELY EVER SEE. ONCE THEY ARE SOLD THE PICTURES ARE CANCELLED AND THE ITEM MAY REMAIN IN A COLLECTION FOR MANY YEARS IF IT EVER SURFACES AGAIN AND THE INFORMATION MAY BE LOST IF IT DOES. THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND REFRENCE LOST OVER THE YEARS BECAUSE OF THIS IS HUGE.
THE MUSEUM OF HISTORICAL ARMS, HOUSE OF SWORDS AND MANY OTHER DEALERS WHO HANDLED LARGE NUMBERS OF ITEMS FOR MANY YEARS COME TO MIND.
A REFRENCE SIGHT ON THE INTERNET WITH PICTURES AND THE PROVENENCE COULD PRESERVE THIS INFO. PERHAPS SUCH A SITE COULD GET PERMISSION FROM SOME DEALERS TO USE THEIR PICTURES AND INFORMATION ON THEIR SITE. I HAD BEEN SAVING PICTURES SINCE 2001 FOR SUCH A REFRENCE BUT COMPUTERS BEING WHAT THEY ARE MOST OF MY INFORMATION WAS CORRUPTED AND LOST. I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED

I HAD ALL MY INFORMATION IN SEPARATE FOLDERS SUCH AS AFRICA WITH SUB FOLDERS BY COUNTRY OR TRIBE. I ALSO WENT BY SUBJECT SUCH AS A FOLDER ON ALL SORTS OF SHIELDS, ECT.
I JUST TOOK ANY PICTURES THAT HAD A GOOD PICTURE OF A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE WITH NO REGARD AS TO WHERE I GOT THE PICTURE AND INFORMATION. I WASN'T TRYING TO STEAL SOMEONES PICTURE OR TO USE SOMETHING WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION FROM THE PERSON FOR ITS USE. I WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO PRESERVE THE INFORMATION FOR FUTURE REFRENCE FOR US ALL. LOTS OF TIME IS INVOLVED IN FINDING AND PUTTING WHAT GOOD INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE WITH THE PICTURES. I WAS TOO LAZY TO SEND NUMEROUS EMAILS OR MAIL TO ASK PERMISSION FOR EVERY PICTURE TO SAVE TIME AND AGRAVATION.
SO I WISH YOU LUCK ON ANY PROJECTS YOU MAY START BUT KEEP A GOOD UNCORRUPTABLE FILE AND BACKUP. IF I CAN GET THINGS WORKING AGAIN WITH MY COMPUTER I MAY BE ABLE TO ADD TO THE DATA BASE.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

But what can we do about getting a Philippine Weapons, artifacts and history website?

Hello, Bill Thanks for your interest in this thread that Nonoy started. As for that proposed virtual museum, I really hope that somebody can put that up. And what TC mentioned about using a clickable and mouse-hoverable Philippine map as the home (default) webpage is a great idea.

Originally Posted by VANDOO

SO I WISH YOU LUCK ON ANY PROJECTS YOU MAY START BUT KEEP A GOOD UNCORRUPTABLE FILE AND BACKUP. IF I CAN GET THINGS WORKING AGAIN WITH MY COMPUTER I MAY BE ABLE TO ADD TO THE DATA BASE.

Vandoo, thanks for the comments also. And we do hope that you can bring back from the land of the shadows those old pics of yours.

By the way, if one collects pictures at the Internet just for personal use, I think one does not need to get the author's permission.

In fact even if one publishes the pics in a forum like EEWRS/EAAF, or in an educational site, etc., such usage still falls under the "fair use" concept and prior permission from the author is not necessary (of course as much as possible the source has to be mentioned, and the use has to be non-commercial, etc.).

Happy New Year to each one ...

[t_c]

migueldiaz: Nice site you have going there.

I have been playing with this interface idea at home and made some progress (it's turned into my EEWRS study guide project). Right now I've got 3 maps all keyed to the same defined (clickable) areas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ph..._provinces.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ph...r_province.PNG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ph_physical_map.png

Anyone have any suggestions/thoughts regarding maps for a project like this?