A sword design theory (Phil., Indonesia, & Malaysia)

[migueldiaz]

As for the ancestral worship religion of Austronesians, the squatting figure would be a common design expression ...

[migueldiaz]

more pics ...

[migueldiaz]

some more ...

[migueldiaz]

more pics, given that compared to the bird and serpent motifs, the ancestral figures have been given less attention ...

[migueldiaz]

if i recall correctly, the idea behind using the squatting figure is that this is the position the corpse of the departed ancestor is made to assume in certain burial practices. and i think the preferred position is as such, based on the idea that the same is the fetal position (and so the dead person should go back to the position he used to assume before he was born ... or something like that).

[migueldiaz]

more photos ...

[David]

Hi Lorenz....i think we all appreciate the time and effort you are making here presenting all these wonderful images. However, the idea that cultural mythology is reflected in the arts and weaponry of the people of that culture is hardly an unheard of concept around here. The postings are getting a bit repetitious and are taking up a bit of bandwidth as well, so i think many of us are wondering if you might be coming to some sort of point with all this. What are your conclusions based upon the ideas you have put forth?

[Gavin Nugent]

Thank you for your presentation Lorenz.

Post #25 is very interesting to me.
It is not often such a simple reference can be found and it is another clue in relation to a Royal Malay Keris in my collections.

Regards to squatting, it is also an important simple natural form that man and woman has been doing for thousands of years with numerous advantageous reasons for doing so to increase life expectancy and to deliver life.

You have mail.

Gav

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by David

Hi Lorenz....i think we all appreciate the time and effort you are making here presenting all these wonderful images. However, the idea that cultural mythology is reflected in the arts and weaponry of the people of that culture is hardly an unheard of concept around here. The postings are getting a bit repetitious and are taking up a bit of bandwidth as well, so i think many of us are wondering if you might be coming to some sort of point with all this. What are your conclusions based upon the ideas you have put forth?

Hi David ... thanks for the note. And as a quick reply:

- I'll surely come up with the conclusions very shortly, as I'm almost there as you have correctly inferred

- bandwidth: these pics are admittedly many, but they are quite lightweight, averaging just a little over 40kB each as I recall

- back to the conclusions I'll be presenting, here's a preview off the top of my head:

(a) the bird and serpent themes of the subject swords have been validated for sure, and though this is old news, I believe that confirmations from time to time are important to make sure our common current train of thought is really on the right track;

(b) given that the barung, kris, and pira are mostly about the sun-bird deity for their icons used, I'll also be reasserting that the kampilan's overall iconography is also about the sun-bird deity, and thus the bifurcated hilt is not the gaping jaws of a croc;

(c) on a related matter, I'll also be posing the query as to why the squatting figure was not used at all in Moro swords, whereas in Malaysian and Indonesian kerises they were used a lot (is that what is called the jawa demam, a form depicting a squatting figurine with arms folding of hugging the body)?;

(d) moving northward in the Philippines into the Visayas, I'll also posit that the long-nosed pommels of sandukos and taribongs, and the grinning man-like figures on the pommels of other Visayan swords, are likewise representations of departed ancestors, as the Visayans' expression of their ancestral worship [note: the Visayans are supposed to have put more weight over ancestral worship, as compared to other Phil. groups];

(e) further north in the case of Ilocano blades, I'll also be arguing that the man/woman figures on the pommel must then be images of departed ancestors, for ethnographic coherence; and

(f) given that in the ancient religions as cited, the achieving of cosmic balance amongst the gods of the upper- and underworld, and also with the departed ancestors, is considered very important, then I'll also be arguing that this supposed balance is not only achieved within the weapon itself [like what Ron illustrated in this thread earlier], but said balance is also strived for by the ethnic warrior in his personal adornments, tattoos, etc., which likewise refer to the symbols of the underworld and upperworld.

The last point may probably be off-topic already as far as this forum is concerned. But perhaps it's also worth mentioning in passing.

Now I also wanted to show how these ancient paganistic religions of ours tend to persist over time and space. In particular, the farthest migrations of these Austronesians reached Easter Island. And we can see how the same beliefs and practices came with them fully intact --

These huge statues, called moai are representations of departed ancestors. And upon closer examination of the carvings on them, we again see the cult of the bird. So once more, the same brand of animism side by side with ancestral worship is found.

Aside from the same theology, the ethnography would also be very similar: the moais have distended earlobes also, same as the old practice in Malaysia-Indonesia-Phils., and the moais also have the typical headdress of our peoples, the putong.

Finally, may I also take this opportunity to inquire from David, Alan, Gustav, and the other experts in Indonesian kerises, as to the 'deal' on the squatting figure on the keris hilts?

In particular: (a) is the belief that the jawa demam is a departed ancestor an uncontested one?; (b) compared to the bird pommel designs on kerises, would a jawa demam form be considered more potent, talismanic-wise, or is this a matter of geography, as to the preferred pommel design? and (c) is there a keris where the pommel's design is a serpent or naga instead. Thanks in advance.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Post #25 is very interesting to me. It is not often such a simple reference can be found and it is another clue in relation to a Royal Malay Keris in my collections.

Thanks too, Gav. With regard to that keris, the original owner seems to have covered all the bases -- the reps of the tripartite cosmos are all there, and the squatting figure on the hilt surely sealed the deal. And the material of the hilt alludes to Hinduism-Buddhism, to top it all. Also, the vines design may be interpreted as having reference to Islam. A man couldn't ask for more ...

[Lew]

Honestly Miguel I'm sure your talking points have come up on past threads. So I am going to ask you to please wrap this up in your next post.

Btw your question to our keris experts really doesn't belong in the ethno section?

"Finally, may I also take this opportunity to inquire from David, Alan, Gustav, and the other experts in Indonesian kerises, as to the 'deal' on the squatting figure on the keris hilts?
Thanks"

Lew

[Lew]

I have decided to close this thread for now. Miguel please PM me when you decide you can wrap up your thoughts on this subject.