A blunderbuss with an early lock

[Pukka Bundook]

Philip,

Not having a dog-lock, I am not sure how easy it is to Engage the dog, but it automatically dis-engages when the lock is brought to full cock.

Best,
Richard.

[corrado26]

To engage the hook at a military arm at bringing the cock in its safety position you just have to held the gun/carbine/pistol downwards. The hook will so easily fall into its position.
To disengage the hook it is necessary to hold the gun upwards when the cock is pulled back in the firing position. Supposition for this is that the screw which fixes the hook on the lockplate is not screwed too tight!
corrado26

[iskender]

gentlemen to shot a doglock firearm just hold it like you would hold a gun , your first or second finger on the trigger ,with your thumb you pull back the catch, pull the trigger thats all. greetings iskender

[Pukka Bundook]

Iskender,

I don't want to belabour the issue, but a normal dog -catch can't just be pulled back at half cock, and when the lock is full cocked, the action of cocking automatically slides the dog catch back over, out of the way.

I think this is a very neat feature and something of a minor mechanical delight!

Best wishes, Richard.

[fernando]

Gentlemen,

The issue here is not when the dog works conveniently but when things don't run smoothly. As first noted by Fernando K and later by Philip, the dog catch, not working under spring tension, depends on 'harmony' factors, like being too tight or too loose and all that. As that Spanish author recalled, and brought to my own wording, it might not circumstancialy be in the mood to fully cooperate with the firing action. I relize that, holding the gun upwards helps 'convincing' the dog to easier disengage, for reasons connected to gravity.

Well Philip, i know the easy way to engage and disengage the dog catch but, i can't do it properly by my own, left handed i am ... you know

[iskender]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Iskender,

I don't want to belabour the issue, but a normal dog -catch can't just be pulled back at half cock, and when the lock is full cocked, the action of cocking automatically slides the dog catch back over, out of the way.

I think this is a very neat feature and something of a minor mechanical delight!

Best wishes, Richard.

dear richard with the gun i have in my hands now , i can pull the safety back with my thumb in the full cocked position and with a fully hookt in safetycatch. i can not take the gun apart and look inside at the lock as it is in a good untouched working conditon and i dont want to destroy its antique appearence.also my english is horrible and it is difficult to discuss mecanical ways how somethings may work or not ! it is never my attention to "bullshit " other collectors in any way with wrong information when possible. thanks to you and a good afternoon to all iskender

[Pukka Bundook]

Iskender,

I apologise for my last post, what I meant is that when working as it was designed,....new even, it Should dis-engage itself when full cocked.

Again, my apologies. I know you would never give false information!

Best wishes,
Richard.

[fernando]

[Philip]

Fernando,
I like the way you explained things. The way you put it, it reminds me of the issues connected with getting some real dogs to do your bidding, on occasion!

To all you gentlemen, thank you for the info which you've provided in response to my question
Philip

[fernando]

Obrigado, Philip .

[iskender]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Iskender,

I apologise for my last post, what I meant is that when working as it was designed,....new even, it Should dis-engage itself when full cocked.

Again, my apologies. I know you would never give false information!

Best wishes,
Richard.

good evening, no apoloigizes needed in no way and matter. I`m just trying to find out what i have in my hands myself in front of me. I have never in my life even thought about the the funktion of a doglock ,it lookt to my as any doglock in the world in that period, i regarded it just as a early flintlockrifle very common in europa and had it in a box in the ware house. the gun i have has a 1:1 Gunlock as the example of fernando with the barrel stamped with two oval british marks.As fernando says "the harmony faktors " are a very important detail, as these things where made all fom hand after a certain given pattern, so every lock in itself is unique and depended on the skill of the gunmaker. greeting iskender

[fernando]

Tamam, Iskender .

[fernando]

So, i was crossing some information towards checking a (possibly) faded mark on my bronze barreled blunderbuss, and what do i find ? Confirmation that guns with a dog lock system were indeed (also) made in Portugal. The place is Barcarena, where Royal smithy facilities were first implemented in 1487 for the purpose of arms making, having circa 1618-1619 taken place the first factory of black gun powder.
We can see in THIS CATALOGUE, besides other illustrations, that of a naval bronze barreled blunderbuss from the middle of the XVII century, "which could shoot nine bullets connected by a chain, with purpose to tear the rig of enemy ships".


.

[M ELEY]

Now, that's what I'm talking about!! Sorry, couldn't resist- As I mentioned, brass and bronze blunderbuss, particularly those on a swivel (rail gun) very popular with the naval men. Quite surprised to see one loaded with anti-rigging chain-shot!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Now, that's what I'm talking about!! Sorry, couldn't resist- As I mentioned, brass and bronze blunderbuss, particularly those on a swivel (rail gun) very popular with the naval men. Quite surprised to see one loaded with anti-rigging chain-shot!

Still you haven't seen it all, Captain .

[Fernando K]

Hello

In what I understand, the trabucos uploaded by fernando (post # 1 and # 43,) the safety hook (dog.lock) hooked in half mounts to the foot of cat (cock, hammer) is automatically unhooked when placing the foot of cat in full-cock, the two flat surfaces run one another, moving the end of the safety hook away from the notch in the foot of the cat, that is, the movement of the cat foot backwards (full-cock) to disengage the security mechanism.

Affectionately

[fernando]

Eso es, caro K

[rickystl]

Hi Fernando

I don't know how I missed this Thread some three years ago ? Glad you resurrected it with an update so I could read from the beginning.

That is a wonderful, early dog lock blunderbuss. Overall, the gun looks like it was assembled from various new/surplus parts for personal protection. To me, all the features of this gun point to pre-1700. Of course, the single sling swivel could have been added later during the period for belt or baldric type carry.
The lock, with the exception of the top screw, looks very much like the English doglocks from about the 3rd Quarter of the 17th Century. The long lock plate and frizzen spring with the pointed tail on the lock plate rear. The hammer and dog safety catch also are very English looking in style. So it appears that the Spanish/Portuguese made lock attempted to copy the popular English features at the time.
The butt stock looks more of a Spanish/Portuguese variant. Not at all English. The iron hardware, especially the butt plate and trigger guard, also look very much pre-1700 with it's plain hammer forged style.
The barrel looks similar to other large bore muskets from the period.
While the iron ramrod and barrel bands could be a bit later addition, I still believe this gun falls into the say, 1660-1675 Period. Just my speculation.

It's certainly great addition to a collection. Guns from the Third Quarter of the 17th Century and earlier are generally difficult to come by, especially in one piece. LOL Congratulations.

Rick

By the way, the doglock, with it's banana shaped lock plate on the navel swivel gun on Post #43 is similar to the English doglocks from the 4th Quarter of the 1600's to about 1720.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by rickystl

It's certainly great addition to a collection. Guns from the Third Quarter of the 17th Century and earlier are generally difficult to come by, especially in one piece. LOL Congratulations.

Rick

By the way, the doglock, with it's banana shaped lock plate on the navel swivel gun on Post #43 is similar to the English doglocks from the 4th Quarter of the 1600's to about 1720.

Rick, you posted some good info that puts Fernando's gun in a meaningful historical context. To which I'd like to add that the banana-shaped lockplate, generally with a pronounced teat on its tail (the stem? ) is a common feature of the fully developed "French" flintlock in general during the period you mention, as applied to all types of firearms using it. In conservative regions like parts of the German-speaking lands, it is recognizable on guns dating from a bit later as well.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

... I suspect the screw is a replacement...

Yes, indeed. I have just checked that with the previous owner, who replaced it himself.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by rickystl

... That is a wonderful, early dog lock blunderbuss........ It's certainly great addition to a collection. Guns from the Third Quarter of the 17th Century and earlier are generally difficult to come by, especially in one piece. LOL Congratulations...

Thanks for the kind words, Rick...