Ethnographic folding knives - Page 2

ThePepperSkull · 15th September 2009, 08:29 PM

I have a great uncle who is from Batangas, Phillippines. Being an old batangueno, he loves knives and has a fairly large collection of Balisong, ranging from very old to brand spanking new. I'll make a mental note to take pics for this thread the next time I visit.

Rick · 15th September 2009, 08:55 PM

A couple of Mom and Pop manufactured balisongs .

Lew · 15th September 2009, 09:23 PM

Here is an Indian folding knife that I had some years back.

kronckew · 16th September 2009, 12:08 AM

took a quick & nasty photo of my balisongs,

Top:marked: Frosts Cutlery - Surgical Steel - Japan
2nd: Hand Made Phillipines 11-521
3rd: (Butterfly logo), Pacific Cutlery - Japan.
Bottom: (unmarked) Rostfrei

the bottom two are amoungst the bland 'tactical' blade shapes that could have come from anywhere. the top two are more 'ethnic', with the filipino one being the most traditional.

(my favourite is actually the bottom unmarked stiletto bladed one

)

A. G. Maisey · 16th September 2009, 12:13 AM

Don't bring those balisongs to Australia to peel your apples.

Illegal here. Get you 25 to life if they don't hang you first --- well, not really, but they are illegal, with very heavy fines and a criminal record attached---just like the dreaded slingshot and those super evil blowpipes.

kronckew · 16th September 2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Don't bring those balisongs to Australia to peel your apples.

Illegal here. Get you 25 to life if they don't hang you first --- well, not really, but they are illegal, with very heavy fines and a criminal record attached---just like the dreaded slingshot and those super evil blowpipes.

actually they're highly illegal here too. they are specifically mentioned on the banned knife list. i am allowed to have them as they were purchased before they were banned, but i cannot take them off my property, or sell, loan, or trade them to anyone. they fall into the same class as push daggers, belt buckle knives, and automatic opening (flick) knives. they are, of course no more deadly than any of my other 'legal' knives.

Rick · 16th September 2009, 12:43 AM

I guess this would merit a hanging then .

Multi-cultural .

One may carry these unconcealed in Florida .

A. G. Maisey · 16th September 2009, 01:56 AM

OH My GOD!!!

Rick, put it away!

That'd get you the cat'o nine tails loaded with lead shot, before they hung you, drew you, and then quartered you. Probably burn your entrails in a brazier as they came out, too.

Rick · 16th September 2009, 02:53 AM

A Braveheart ending, eh ?

A. G. Maisey · 16th September 2009, 04:06 AM

Yep.

But if you're interested in weaponry of any kind in this country --- Miraculous Oz --- you need to have the fortitude of a William Wallace to endure.

You can go down for a bunch of keys in the wrong place and wrong time here.

Rick · 16th September 2009, 04:41 AM

The spiral springs on these new autos are pretty nifty; quite unlike the traditional lever 'springer' switchblades they exert opening force throughout the process rather than a spring 'launch' that can be stopped simply by deflection, these will continue to open .

With these you can also easily replace a worn or broken spring without rebuilding the knife.

I think I digress .....

kronckew · 16th September 2009, 08:07 AM

Mine is a more traditional auto. (also grandfathered in the law, but can't go outside, etc.)

'assisted opening' knives are legal to buy and own, tho not to carry 'without good reason' as they all are lock knives, a no-no. they are OK as the springdoes not open the knife directly via a button or lever release, but only 'assist' the opening started manually. the end result is the same, but one is legal and the other isn't. strange world lawyers live in. customs in the US were going to ban assisted opening knives by internal regulation (ie. not based on law, but just because they felt like it) but there was a heartening groundswell of opinion and letters to congress that managed to scare them back into their holes. until next time.

kronckew · 16th September 2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yep.

...

You can go down for a bunch of keys in the wrong place and wrong time here.

guess this pocket multi-too would be illegal as well.

i stopped carrying mine as it was more likely to cut me than the thing i was trying to cut with it. but of course that is what made it legal.

A. G. Maisey · 16th September 2009, 10:03 AM

That multi tool is a knife by definition, and a bladed implement.

Carry is definitely prohibited in NSW, Australia , unless you have an acceptable reason. An acceptable reason would be for the preparation and consumption of food --- pretty much anything other than this would not be acceptable.

kronckew · 16th September 2009, 10:28 AM

here you can carry a 3in. edge or smaller non-locking folder without a good reason, as long as you do not take it out and use it in an offensive manner (self defence is still offensive according to the law). just taking out out to cut something can be considered 'threatening' if some member of the public gets frightened.

you can carry a fixed blade or locking knife only with good reason, being a chef would be one, or being in a profession where you regularly cut open boxes is another. going fishing would allow you to carry a filleting knife in the tackle box.

however, you must proceed DIRECTLY from your home to the place of the activity, if you stop for fuel, for a wee, or to pick up a take-away, you have then broken the reason and can be prosecuted for carrying an offensive weapon, even if it was locked up in your tackle box, glove box, etc. if you enter a prohibited zone, a public building, court, subway system, train, school, etc. even the under 3in. otherwise legal carry suddenly is not legal.

the police get to decide if your reason is a good one, and may confiscate your knife, and arrest you if they do not like it. you may get off a few months later,after court and lawyers fees, etc. you won't get your knife back tho. and you might not get off. if the non-locking folding knife is borderline, ie. the edge is 2 7/8" and there is a 1/4 unsharpened ricasso, if the cop decides he don't like it, you can get arrested and argue it in court.

i heard of a guy with a little under 1 inch keychain knife that was not even sharpened, it had a button lock and looked like a flick knife, cop noticed it on a traffic stop when it was dangling from the ignition. he got arrested, and convicted of carrying an offensive weapon, tho he did get a suspended sentence and a fine on top of the other legal hassles and expenses instead of jail - and of course he's now a convicted felon.

ah, well, 'nuff said on the subject, we best not stray into politics...

Rick · 16th September 2009, 07:04 PM

Might as well add a little Klaas to this thread .

A Kissing Crane .

Love the green scales !

ThePepperSkull · 7th June 2010, 09:20 AM

I am surprised that nobody mentioned the Higonokami

Andrew · 9th June 2010, 03:32 AM

Here's a recent addition I picked up from OA. This is what Artzi (Avner?) had to say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms

The origin and use of this type of folding knifes is not very clear and there are numerous suggestions: Ranging from knives to clean opium pipes to knives for cutting and inscribing on dates leaves. The origin is most probably from the Indo-China area. It has a 3 inches blade, hollow ground, 3 inches back spike and ivory handle with engraved inscription. handle. 6 ½ inches fully opened. Very good condition.

This is clearly from SEA. My impression is Thai based on the blade profile, but if someone (PUFF?

) were able to translate the inscription on the handle, we would surely learn more.

Andrew

Rick · 9th June 2010, 03:38 AM

Just kinda found its way to you unnoticed.

Lucky Guy .

Andrew · 9th June 2010, 03:48 AM

lol.

Amazingly, this is likely the first purchase I've made in over a year!

Andrew · 9th June 2010, 03:52 AM

And, since I'm now a moderator emeritus, I abused my still intact super-powers to edit the thread title (temporarily) to entice PUFF to come join us.

Berkley · 9th June 2010, 03:57 AM

From China, usually called a "fish knife":

OTOH, compare this modern variant:http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Chinese-Arm...item3a5b3436ac

Nathaniel · 10th June 2010, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Here's a recent addition I picked up from OA. This is what Artzi (Avner?) had to say:

This is clearly from SEA. My impression is Thai based on the blade profile, but if someone (PUFF?

) were able to translate the inscription on the handle, we would surely learn more.

Andrew

Andrew, Just saw your post. The script is not Thai...not sure what it is

Nathaniel · 10th June 2010, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

From China, usually called a "fish knife":

OTOH, compare this modern variant:http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Chinese-Arm...item3a5b3436ac

Interesting knife...the ebay post had some very interesting information

I wonder why the blade does not open up to a wider angle?

PUFF · 10th June 2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Here's a recent addition I picked up from OA. This is what Artzi (Avner?) had to say:

This is clearly from SEA. My impression is Thai based on the blade profile, but if someone (PUFF?

) were able to translate the inscription on the handle, we would surely learn more.

Andrew

Thanks Nathaniel for sending me a link to this thread. I rarely visit this forum this year.

The inscription is not Thai. And as fas as I know, it doesnt looks like Burmese nor Khmer.

Folding knife is not common for Thai before 18-19C. Most of small knives are fixed blade.

Andrew · 11th June 2010, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUFF

Thanks Nathaniel for sending me a link to this thread. I rarely visit this forum this year.

The inscription is not Thai. And as fas as I know, it doesnt looks like Burmese nor Khmer.

Folding knife is not common for Thai before 18-19C. Most of small knives are fixed blade.

Ah, curious. Many thanks.

Would you agree that blade profile looks Thai?

The file-work on the spike strikes me as possibly Indian. Hmmmm.

kronckew · 11th June 2010, 08:26 AM

thought that last one looked familiar, opium smoking knife from china:

Linky

i suspect the other 'thai' friction folder with the pictographic writing is also an opium knife. the knife is used to trim wicks and cut the opium into small bits, which are then carefully impaled on a skewer, or opium pin, for placement in the flame for cooking before being placed in the pipe bowl. the thai/hmong knife's spike tip seems to have been subject to similar use. these are early 'combo' tools.

the chinese 'cavalry' knife in the earlier posted link has a spike for removing stones and other items stuck in a horse's hoof, and the blade is used to trim any sharp edges on the hoof.

many knives, such as my royal navy/marine issue knife

have similar stubby blades in the warncliffe or sheepsfoot patterns, with marlinspikes added for use in rope and knot work.

mross · 11th June 2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Here's a recent addition I picked up from OA. This is what Artzi (Avner?) had to say:

This is clearly from SEA. My impression is Thai based on the blade profile, but if someone (PUFF?

) were able to translate the inscription on the handle, we would surely learn more.

Andrew

This style of knife is often refered to as a friction folder.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...friction+knife

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...friction+knife

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/...read.php?14882

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=298709

Berkley · 12th June 2010, 12:28 AM

kronckew,
That knife is an interesting variation, since its tail does indeed appear to be in the form of tweezers such as are commonly used for holding sticky balls of uncooked opium. Most of the "fish knives" I have seen have solid spikes more suitable for knotwork on lines or nets (or cleaning hooves). The basic Chinese folder design appears to have a variety of possible uses.
Berk

kronckew · 12th June 2010, 07:25 AM

ah, how soon we forget:

a similar thai style knife in a earlier post in this thread. see post no. 19...

a thread on the chinese 'peasants' knife...
Linky

the friction folder has been around since early roman times at least, and are still quite popular.

modern peasants knives:

the one on the left is considerably older than the other two

15th September 2009, 08:55 PM	#32
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	A couple of Mom and Pop manufactured balisongs . Attached Images

15th September 2009, 09:23 PM	#33
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here is an Indian folding knife that I had some years back. Attached Images

16th September 2009, 12:43 AM	#37
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I guess this would merit a hanging then . Multi-cultural . One may carry these unconcealed in Florida . Attached Images

16th September 2009, 07:04 PM	#46
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Might as well add a little Klaas to this thread . A Kissing Crane . Love the green scales ! Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 16th September 2009 at 07:23 PM.

11th June 2010, 08:26 AM	#57
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	thought that last one looked familiar, opium smoking knife from china: Linky i suspect the other 'thai' friction folder with the pictographic writing is also an opium knife. the knife is used to trim wicks and cut the opium into small bits, which are then carefully impaled on a skewer, or opium pin, for placement in the flame for cooking before being placed in the pipe bowl. the thai/hmong knife's spike tip seems to have been subject to similar use. these are early 'combo' tools. the chinese 'cavalry' knife in the earlier posted link has a spike for removing stones and other items stuck in a horse's hoof, and the blade is used to trim any sharp edges on the hoof. many knives, such as my royal navy/marine issue knife have similar stubby blades in the warncliffe or sheepsfoot patterns, with marlinspikes added for use in rope and knot work. Last edited by kronckew; 11th June 2010 at 09:07 AM.

15th September 2009, 08:29 PM	#31
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	I have a great uncle who is from Batangas, Phillippines. Being an old batangueno, he loves knives and has a fairly large collection of Balisong, ranging from very old to brand spanking new. I'll make a mental note to take pics for this thread the next time I visit.

16th September 2009, 12:08 AM	#34
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	took a quick & nasty photo of my balisongs, Top:marked: Frosts Cutlery - Surgical Steel - Japan 2nd: Hand Made Phillipines 11-521 3rd: (Butterfly logo), Pacific Cutlery - Japan. Bottom: (unmarked) Rostfrei the bottom two are amoungst the bland 'tactical' blade shapes that could have come from anywhere. the top two are more 'ethnic', with the filipino one being the most traditional. (my favourite is actually the bottom unmarked stiletto bladed one )

16th September 2009, 12:13 AM	#35
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Don't bring those balisongs to Australia to peel your apples. Illegal here. Get you 25 to life if they don't hang you first --- well, not really, but they are illegal, with very heavy fines and a criminal record attached---just like the dreaded slingshot and those super evil blowpipes.

16th September 2009, 01:56 AM	#38
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	OH My GOD!!! Rick, put it away! That'd get you the cat'o nine tails loaded with lead shot, before they hung you, drew you, and then quartered you. Probably burn your entrails in a brazier as they came out, too.

16th September 2009, 02:53 AM	#39
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	A Braveheart ending, eh ?

16th September 2009, 04:06 AM	#40
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yep. But if you're interested in weaponry of any kind in this country --- Miraculous Oz --- you need to have the fortitude of a William Wallace to endure. You can go down for a bunch of keys in the wrong place and wrong time here.

16th September 2009, 04:41 AM	#41
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The spiral springs on these new autos are pretty nifty; quite unlike the traditional lever 'springer' switchblades they exert opening force throughout the process rather than a spring 'launch' that can be stopped simply by deflection, these will continue to open . With these you can also easily replace a worn or broken spring without rebuilding the knife. I think I digress .....

16th September 2009, 08:07 AM	#42
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Mine is a more traditional auto. (also grandfathered in the law, but can't go outside, etc.) 'assisted opening' knives are legal to buy and own, tho not to carry 'without good reason' as they all are lock knives, a no-no. they are OK as the springdoes not open the knife directly via a button or lever release, but only 'assist' the opening started manually. the end result is the same, but one is legal and the other isn't. strange world lawyers live in. customs in the US were going to ban assisted opening knives by internal regulation (ie. not based on law, but just because they felt like it) but there was a heartening groundswell of opinion and letters to congress that managed to scare them back into their holes. until next time.

16th September 2009, 10:03 AM	#44
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	That multi tool is a knife by definition, and a bladed implement. Carry is definitely prohibited in NSW, Australia , unless you have an acceptable reason. An acceptable reason would be for the preparation and consumption of food --- pretty much anything other than this would not be acceptable.

16th September 2009, 10:28 AM	#45
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	here you can carry a 3in. edge or smaller non-locking folder without a good reason, as long as you do not take it out and use it in an offensive manner (self defence is still offensive according to the law). just taking out out to cut something can be considered 'threatening' if some member of the public gets frightened. you can carry a fixed blade or locking knife only with good reason, being a chef would be one, or being in a profession where you regularly cut open boxes is another. going fishing would allow you to carry a filleting knife in the tackle box. however, you must proceed DIRECTLY from your home to the place of the activity, if you stop for fuel, for a wee, or to pick up a take-away, you have then broken the reason and can be prosecuted for carrying an offensive weapon, even if it was locked up in your tackle box, glove box, etc. if you enter a prohibited zone, a public building, court, subway system, train, school, etc. even the under 3in. otherwise legal carry suddenly is not legal. the police get to decide if your reason is a good one, and may confiscate your knife, and arrest you if they do not like it. you may get off a few months later,after court and lawyers fees, etc. you won't get your knife back tho. and you might not get off. if the non-locking folding knife is borderline, ie. the edge is 2 7/8" and there is a 1/4 unsharpened ricasso, if the cop decides he don't like it, you can get arrested and argue it in court. i heard of a guy with a little under 1 inch keychain knife that was not even sharpened, it had a button lock and looked like a flick knife, cop noticed it on a traffic stop when it was dangling from the ignition. he got arrested, and convicted of carrying an offensive weapon, tho he did get a suspended sentence and a fine on top of the other legal hassles and expenses instead of jail - and of course he's now a convicted felon. ah, well, 'nuff said on the subject, we best not stray into politics...

7th June 2010, 09:20 AM	#47
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	I am surprised that nobody mentioned the Higonokami

9th June 2010, 03:38 AM	#49
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Just kinda found its way to you unnoticed. Lucky Guy .

9th June 2010, 03:48 AM	#50
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	lol. Amazingly, this is likely the first purchase I've made in over a year!

9th June 2010, 03:52 AM	#51
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	And, since I'm now a moderator emeritus, I abused my still intact super-powers to edit the thread title (temporarily) to entice PUFF to come join us.

9th June 2010, 03:57 AM	#52
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	From China, usually called a "fish knife": OTOH, compare this modern variant:http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Chinese-Arm...item3a5b3436ac

12th June 2010, 12:28 AM	#59
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	kronckew, That knife is an interesting variation, since its tail does indeed appear to be in the form of tweezers such as are commonly used for holding sticky balls of uncooked opium. Most of the "fish knives" I have seen have solid spikes more suitable for knotwork on lines or nets (or cleaning hooves). The basic Chinese folder design appears to have a variety of possible uses. Berk Attached Images

12th June 2010, 07:25 AM	#60
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	ah, how soon we forget: a similar thai style knife in a earlier post in this thread. see post no. 19... a thread on the chinese 'peasants' knife... Linky the friction folder has been around since early roman times at least, and are still quite popular. modern peasants knives: the one on the left is considerably older than the other two Last edited by kronckew; 12th June 2010 at 07:46 AM.