What kind of oil do you use for your blades?

[Dimasalang]

Arts and Crafts stores carry RLO in small 8oz bottles. Artist use RLO to mix with their paint.

[Dimasalang]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Definately Raw Linseed Oil for wood, and although I have not tried it on leather, it should be OK there as well, as it is vegetable , and not chemical based.

One thing that is a negative for RLO, because it is vegetable, it can rot leather and it can mold. So you have to watch carefully for this.

[A. G. Maisey]

Leather is best treated with preparations intended for leather, such as dubbin, or lanoline based leather nourishers and cleansers, or neatsfoot oil. Shoe polish is not a good preparation to use on old leather because of the drying agents in it which can worsen any cracking.

Wood treated with raw linseed oil is subject to formation of mold, but occasional rubbing with a couple of drops in the hand takes care of this. It is the unrefined solids in raw linseed oil that provide the patina.

A good fake hand rubbed finish can be achieved by using a gunstock finish like Birchwood Casey Tru Oil, lowering the shine with 0000 steel wool , and then hand rubbing with raw linseed oil. A genuine hand rubbed oil finish takes weeks of repeated rubbing to bring to a satisfactory finish, a faked up hand rubbed finish can be done over a weekend.

Neatsfoot oil is also the best preparation I know of for preserving tool handles.

[fearn]

I love linseed oil too. It's got one problem though, which is that linseed oil on cotton rags can sometimes spontaneously combust, so make sure you dispose of it carefully!. I usually soap up the rags and dispose of them sopping wet.

Best,

F

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks for that Fearn.

Just shows it doesn't matter how long you've used something you can always learn something new about it.

I've used linseed oil, both raw and boiled, all my life, as had my father before me, and his great uncle, from whom he learnt his trade, and I've never heard about this spontaneous combustion thing.

Do you know under what circumstances this will occur?

Ever seen it happen?

PS --- just googleised it. yep, its real alright. couldn't find anybody who had ever seen it happen, but according to the chemistry its possible, and manufacturers warn against it.

Again, thanks Fearn for bringing this to our attention.

[asomotif]

Cotton rags and any kind of grease or oil may start to "selfheat".
Same proces as in coal or a haystack.

If you combine this with metal dust or turnings that are left after drilling in metal, you can get a tricky combination for a fire.

Cotton rags with lineseed can also be laid down flat for the lineseed to dry before disposal.

Risk is the sum of "chance" and "consequence".
The chance of these rags selfcombusting is probably not that high.
But the consequence if you have left them in the garbage can in the garage and return after a days work...

[fearn]

Yep. The problem is that the heating and ignition seems to be pretty unpredictable, otherwise you could carry a wad of cotton and linseed oil camping to light a fire. That unpredictability is the annoying part, and I've certainly never seen it.

It's not hard to fix, so it's worth cleaning up properly. Otherwise, linseed's lovely stuff.

Best,

F

[PUFF]

I use Renaissance Wax or alike for both metal and wooden parts.
I found drying vegetable oils (linseed, tung) do not protect them from moisture well enough. Drying oil also darken the wood part too much.

Non-drying oil like mineral or white oil may attract dust. Human or animal oil also attract pest (mice/insects) to take your scabbard as their snack.

[A. G. Maisey]

On wood in perfect condition a good furniture wax of one kind or another is essential. Rennaissance or Antiqax are probably the best. However, on wood that has deteriorated, linseed oil is probably the best substance to assist in restoration.

I have treated wood carvings with raw linseed oil that had great gaping cracks in them and these carvings were brought back so that the cracks were completely closed. It took months in all cases to achieve this, and in the case of one large elephant from Bali, he stood in oil for a very long time. But the closure of gaps has stood the test of time.

[Dimasalang]

One thing to really keep in mind about linseed, it is not that great if you are restoring "decorative" wood. For instance, bunti wood with the nice grain on a barong that really stands out. In the wood working world, linseed is not that great for getting the grain to pop, reflect, stand out, glow, or give that 3D effect(chatoyance). You will still see the different grain sections, but it will be dull and not stand or pop out. Many wood workers have their own techniques and can use different methods to get grain to pop..it is like an art form. It is difficult to do since nearly all wood(even if the same type) can behave differently to the same techniques. Most popping techniques involve shellac and sealers. And I have heard some wood workers using Chromium Trioxide, which is a highly cancerous chemical, just to make the grains stand out(not a good idea IMO if you are always handling the wood). Down side of all this, these popping grain finishes typically do not last long ...a good 10 years and the pop will be fading; and the shellac or sealer can make it look extremely cloudy.
So, I guess it all boils down to what you want or have, and what you want to do with it. Bunti wood is very attract wood and can be just as decorative as curly maple...which is why I believe the Moros used the wood. For historical pieces I have or will acquire, I would use linseed. If I was restoring a piece and more interested in making it look nice and stand out, then linseed may not be a good idea.

A barong I have that had the handle refinished where the grain pops.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, a hand rubbed oil finish is more subdued than a french polished finish, or any of the other variations that are used now. I am not a woodworker, even though I have made a number of custom rifle stocks, but my father was a fine art cabinet maker, and others in his family were the same trade. A normal french polish used to be the bench mark for a fine furniture finish, and if done correctly, this will highlight anything that a grain has to offer.

The old English stock finishes were, as previously mentioned, hand rubbed oil finishes, and although these will blind you with reflected light, for a connoisseur this has long been regarded as the finish of choice. The grain is still there, it is still chatoyant, but you require taste and education to appreciate it, rather than the bling that is a factor in a fine french polish, and that anybody can see and appreciate.

[clockwork]

I have use clove oil on my blades with good results and it smells good LOL

[Nathaniel]

Hello all. Just thought I would repost this thread and see if anyone had anything new to add

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Hello all. Just thought I would repost this thread and see if anyone had anything new to add

Hi Nat,
Most seems to be covered already, but here's one we used years ago when using (particularly) guns for hunting in wet/damp conditions. 50/50 gun oil and Vaseline. Heat slightly to liquify the Vaseline and mix thoroughly. Doubles as a lubricant and waterproofer. Perhaps not so suitable for blades but excellent for keeping rust off guns.
Stu

[kronckew]

still using ballistol here.

or BLO on wood. LO is actually flax seed oil, flax fibre=linen.

be careful, most commercial BLO uses chemical additives, usually metallic oxides and salts to get the quick drying effect rather than spending all that time required if it is actually boiled. it's poisonous, so don't hand rub with it. i found some proper actually 'boiled' blo at my local hardware store, they also happen to be the local undertaker and coffin maker. (small town )

[Bob A]

For what it may be worth, I have used a product called Eezox on some metal items. It is both a solvent and a rust inhibitor. For red surface rust, and as a protection for some blades, I've found that cleaning with eezox and a stainless steel ribbon sponge, sold as "scrub buds", will remove light rust without damaging the surface finish, for example the bluing on firearms. Several applications, wiped with an absorbent rag, will leave red-brown staining on the rag, until the rust is minimised. I leave eezox on the surface to dry, where it forms a protective barrier against further oxidation. Once everything has dried, an application of renaissance wax serves as additional protection.

Obviously there are objects for which this is inappropriate. That said, I've found blades and firearms so treated have remained protected for more than a few years, admittedly in a reasonably controlled environment.

[Paul B.]

I wonder why some blades keep there smell for years where others fade in a few weeks time. Nowadays I don't use fragant oils just a cheap sewing oil. Could it be that the smell is absorbed by the inside of the gandar ?
Once I had to change the dress of a blade with a longlasting smell but in the replaced dress it did not have that strong smell anymore hence my conclusion.

[Albert]

For the metal parts I use Ballistol.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

For dry, damaged hide/leather or wood, like on hilts and scabbards, i find that linseed oil has an amazing way of re-lusturizing (is that even a word- ) the finish. Also works great on old gun stocks...
Anyone else try this product??

Do you use boiled or raw linseed on the leather? To my understanding boiled has lead added to it as a drying agent and it seemed to have a long term negative effect on leather. I do like the boiled on wood as it doesn't gum due to the drying agent and you can use a finer abrasive.

Growing up in my grandfather's old school gun shop we used Rig on everything metal, but we dealt in European and American knives and fire arms. It did just fine on Damascus shotgun barrels and preserved case hardening colors nicely. That said I have been told that it would damage the temper lines on Japanese blades. I think the gentleman who told me that said he used magnolia oil. I live in the desert now and don't have to worry that much about rust. My preservation problem now is splitting wood.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Paul, the gandar, and the gambar of a wrongko will absorb the oil that is put onto a blade. In the case of a wrongko that has no pendok, this oil will stain the gandar, and this is considered to be undesirable.

However, it is considered to be desirable, some would say highly desirable, for the gandar that is covered with a pendok to be permeated by the fragrant oil that is applied to the blade.

Wood is a cellulose material, and left in long contact with unprotected ferric material, it will cause rust. If the oil permeates the wood it lessens the rust causing properties of cellulose. In fact, a scabbard of any type of material is far from ideal as the storage place for a blade. In the case of keris, two of the most favoured woods for a wrongko are scented sandalwood and teak, especially burl teak, both these woods have high natural oil content.

I use scented oil on all my South East Asian blades, on keris and other items considered to be tosan aji, because it is considered to be the respectful thing to do, on other blades because I always have the scented oil that I use on keris, close at hand, and it is easier for me to use this than something else.

But I do not store unprotected blades in their scabbards (wrongkos) I oil all my blades and then I place that oiled blade into a plastic sleeve, usually I then store the plastic covered blade in its scabbard, sometimes I do not.

Where the blade itself retains the smell of oil even after it has been thoroughly cleaned, the material from which the blade is made will be found to be open grained and porous.



Albert

Ballistol, and a number of other oils designed for use with firearms do provide very good protection for any object made of ferric material, and that includes edged weapons.

However, when we are dealing with items of tosan aji, that is keris, tombak, pedang and other similar weapons from the Archipelago, it is traditional within these cultures, and most especially so in Jawa, to use scented oils.

For those of us who wish to observe the correct pattern of behaviour in respect of tosan aji, the use of oils other than those deemed to be acceptable within the relevant cultures is not really an option.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by asomotif

As long as you "rub" and don't "club" , you should not become sick

This weekend I saw someone rub his NOSE across an brass shield and than start to polish it for the warm glow. So you are not alone.

One of my old hunting buddies in Hawaii used to squeeze some body oil from the outside of his nose and rub it on his carbon steel knife blades to prevent rust. I'm not making this up. In the pidgin English we grew up speaking in the Islands, we had the term "hanabata" which was coined by Japanese immigrant field hands on the plantations, literally meaning nose-butter, but most folks took that as meaning the stuff inside the nostrils. Eeeesh.

Personally, I vote for Japanese camellia oil on blades in any sort of polish or exhibiting watered patterns.
On old European blades with normal wear and weathering, wax (Renaissance, or even the old standby Johnson's), works beautifully.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, micro-crystalline wax is great for blades with a smooth surface, in fact, it would be great for Balinese finish blades too --- except for the cultural dictates.

[Neil]

Hopps gun oil for me generally speaking on my metal antique weapons.

I have used linseed oil on wood shields I have sealed and it definitely polymerizes over time creating a notable layer.

[A. G. Maisey]

Hoppes solvent & gun oil has been my preferred firearms treatment for more than 50 years. I've tried a few others, but always come back to Hoppes.

Hand rubbed linseed will give a pretty nice finish to a rifle stock. I've used both boiled oil and raw oil for this, and in my opinion there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference between them. Preparation of the surface, plus repeated rubbings over a long period is the key. However, nothing I've ever done has matched a proper London hand rubbed oil finish. I believe that they probably incorporated genuine tung oil (NOT the stuff they call "tung oil" these days) into whatever they used --- plus probably a few "secret" ingedients.

One problem with an oil finish is that if maintenance is not kept up to it, it will deteriorate and can grow mildew. Not pretty to see.

Personally, these days I much prefer some of the commercial stock finishes rather than linseed.

[drac2k]

The mildew may not be from the oil, but rather a high concentration of humidity in your house in certain areas. I had stored some items in a closet and had a reoccurring problem with mildew and nothing that I did would stop the problem.
Finally, I placed a couple of "Moisture Eliminators, "that I got from the Dollar Store and the problem was solved. You would be surprised at the amount of water collected; I change them every 45 to 60 days.

[Will M]

I don't use oil on any of my collection, messy and gets where you don't want it and gravity pulls it down. Boiled Linseed oil has chemicals in it so it hardens and dries, raw never dries. WD40 is a moisture remover and evaporates later leaving no protection.
Microcrystalline wax works best and you can warm the object to have it bond with the metal and fill all crevices large and microscopic.
The Katrina flood left many collections submerged. It was found that items treated with Renaissance Wax faired best.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Do you use boiled or raw linseed on the leather? To my understanding boiled has lead added to it as a drying agent and it seemed to have a long term negative effect on leather. I do like the boiled on wood as it doesn't gum due to the drying agent and you can use a finer abrasive.

Linseed is the old standby for wood, not leather. For the latter, mink oil is highly recommended and I’ve followed that. advice for years with excellent results. It has a soft waxy texture not liquid.

Like you the presence of lead in boiled linseed oil is of some concern. If you cut raw linseed with gum turpentine that will help with absorption and drying. If you end up with a semi tacky film you can vigorously wipe with a piece of burlap to make a nice sheen that dries hard. Or you can later finish with your favorite wax.

[A. G. Maisey]

Boiled linseed dries more quickly, true, but raw oil seems to be a better filler, a lot slower to dry, sometimes finishes up a bit tacky --- which is not really a problem --- but the finished job, and I'm talking two years, not two weeks, looks pretty much the same. When I say that "tacky" is not a problem, I mean it can be easily fixed, it is not something that you need to live with.

The mildew problem is a characteristic of linseed finished wood. Yes, overall damp conditions certainly do generate mildew, but in premises which are not subject to a moist environment, a poorly maintained linseed finished gunstock can still produce mildew. I used to know of a lot of recipes for a hand-rubbed oil finish, and they can contain tung oil, mineral turps, gum turps, vinegar --- and other stuff I've forgotten. The preparation stage can get a bit mystical for some people. I've known people to use stuff like egg-white in the prep stage, and a lot of people swear by lemon juice and isopropyl alcohol in the prep, rather than steam whiskering.

The main thing with a hand rubbed oil finish is the way it is done, thorough preparation, warm wood, warm oil, tiny quantities of oil, completely dry between coats, rub back with 0000 steel wool between coats, spread the job over months, not days, buff the finish, wax over the oil finish. Some people prefer to use a cloth or hessian pad, others prefer no pad, others just use bare hand, you can generate more heat with a pad, and heat helps both drying and penetration.

I did a lot of stock work in my late teens and twenties, and have continued with spasmodic bouts of playing with firearm wood since then. I was taught how to do a hand rubbed finish by somebody who had a very solid background in this art, using boiled oil, what I was told was " a coat a day for a week, a coat a week for a month, a coat a month for a year, a coat a year forever" . I don't know that we can take that literally, but it is certainly the idea behind a decent hand rubbed finish. The thing with any oil finish is that it penetrates the wood, it doesn't sit on top of the wood like shellac, it goes into the wood and bonds with it, this means that if you have dings and dents in your stock it is a whole lot easier to get them out and bring the finish back than it ever is with something that just sits on top of the wood.

Oil finishes are never just a matter of slapping a bit of oil onto something, it is an art, and there are a number of ways to do the job. About 20 years ago there was a good article on oil finishing in one of the gun journals, I forget which one, but it was most likely Gun Digest because that's the only one I regularly buy.

[kronckew]

You CAN get proper BLO without the poisonous drying additives if you look hard enough. You can even buy edible flax seed oil (Flax oil IS another name for Linseed oil) from health food stores and boil it yourself, tho that may get interesting if it overheats, I bought some for use on wooden clubs from my local Hardware store. They happened to also be the local undertaker and coffin makers.

"A coat a day for a week, a coat a week for a month, a coat a month for a year, a coat a year forever" is also what I was taught many moons ago. works for me. After the first annual reoil, I turn 'forever' into 'as needed'.

They were/are quite traditional and preferred that for their hand rubbed coffin finishes. the tin specifically says there are no additives. It does take a LOT longer to polymerise and 'dry' without the additives.

In the late 19c Germany held a contest with a cash prize for anyone who could develop an all-purpose non-toxic gun lube and rust preventative. A gentleman won with his mineral oil based stuff, it could be used on wood stocks and does not dry out or harden or get tacky or sticky, it removes leading and copper fouling from the barrel rifling, lubricated the rifle moving parts, and prevented rust better than all the other entrants. It was non-toxic, and could also be used to lube moving parts on food prep machinery. It was found that it also was anti-septic and could be used to disinfect wounds and cuts, was anti-fungal as well, and could even be taken internally for a variety of illnesses (you can still buy a medical grade of it which is a bit purer, or a food grade version for fool machinery.) It's anise fragranced as anise oil is part of the formulae, some people like it, others do not. The Name of this miracle stuff is - Ballistol. It also doe not degenerate or break down over time, A tin of it can be left open for years and will be just as good as when made. Might get a few bugs in it tho, they can be strained out . Like anise flavoured Greek ouzo, it can be mixed with water, and turns a similar white cloudy look. tastes a bit like it too, but is not alcoholic.

For some reason I have not yet found the formulation sold in America has a slightly different formulation than the original still sold in Europe and the UK. Not sure what the difference is. Also useful for softening ear wax (Earwax is not recommended for use on wood or ferric metals )

[midelburgo]

I use arms grease. Antios or Armistol. It is there a year later.
Armistol has a nice kit with a dressing for wood.

I want to try lithium grease with some irrelevant blades.