Ivory handle

Sajen · 3rd March 2010, 10:09 AM

Hello dear members,

in the night I win a keris by e-bay. I bid on this because it have a very nice ivory handle and I never thought that I get it by this price.
Here the link: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

What do you think? Later at the day I will upload the pictures too.

Best,

Detlef

Marcokeris · 3rd March 2010, 10:34 AM

CONGRATURATION!!!!

A very very very good win (awesome price)

Sajen · 3rd March 2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

CONGRATURATION!!!!

A very very very good win (awesome price)

Thank you Marco, I am very happy by this surprising price! When I see it in the morning I can't believe it at first!

Rick · 3rd March 2010, 04:43 PM

The Seller is located in the U.S. ?

Hopefully it will get by Customs ; if it does, you have made a great buy !

sirek · 3rd March 2010, 06:53 PM

good bargain,

I myself have doubts to bid on this one, but the (antique) ivory hilt made me doubt.

So I ask the CITES.org: can I buy antique ivory in another country?
and they answered me:

under the CITES-Convention is prohibited to export or import between different countries new or antique ivory without the correct papers.
(The seller must request an export license and the buyer an import licenses about 80 dollar/60 euro each )

So I hope for you that they do not check the contents, and that you have for a small cost a beautiful keris.

good luck

Rick · 3rd March 2010, 07:43 PM

I'm amazed no one in the U.S. snapped this up .

David · 3rd March 2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm amazed no one in the U.S. snapped this up .

Damn! Good deal. If i have seen it at that price i certainly would have bid. I hope it gets into the country.

Sajen · 3rd March 2010, 08:36 PM

Here the pictures from the seller.

Sajen · 3rd March 2010, 08:49 PM

Thank you for the comments. I don't understand why it don't went higher, when I see in the morning that I win it by this price I think I am still dreaming.

I am not really afraid to get problems.

Detlef

Rick · 3rd March 2010, 10:24 PM

My friend, you had better hope that the wrong eyes are not reading this forum .

Sajen · 3rd March 2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

My friend, you had better hope that the wrong eyes are not reading this forum .

You are right by this!

Best,

Detlef

Rick · 3rd March 2010, 11:42 PM

You will have a PM

asomotif · 4th March 2010, 12:23 AM

Nice keris Detlef. congrats with this bargain.

In the Netherlands I haven't had any problems with import either. (knock on wood

)
Although I hardly collect nor buy ivory object.
But mandaus that came from abroad where never stopped with questions about the hilt material.
Best thing here is to let the shipper describe it onthe parcel as antiques.
In that case I pay 5 or 6 % VAT.

Anyway.
Sirek, you write :

Quote:

So I ask the CITES.org: can I buy antique ivory in another country?
and they answered me:

Amazing, they answered you ?!?
In the past I have tried to contact them about new made hornbill ivory (buceros vigil) objects that where offered on ebay, and I received no reply whatsoever.

Sajen · 4th March 2010, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Nice keris Detlef. congrats with this bargain.

In the Netherlands I haven't had any problems with import either. (knock on wood

)
Although I hardly collect nor buy ivory object.
But mandaus that came from abroad where never stopped with questions about the hilt material.
Best thing here is to let the shipper describe it onthe parcel as antiques.
In that case I pay 5 or 6 % VAT.

Anyway.
Sirek, you write :

Amazing, they answered you ?!?
In the past I have tried to contact them about new made hornbill ivory (buceros vigil) objects that where offered on ebay, and I received no reply whatsoever.

Thank you Willem,

and I knocked on the wood already!

Here in Germany we pay 7% VAT for ethnograhic items and I will be happy to pay it when it passed!

sirek · 4th March 2010, 09:24 AM

Its because I have no experience with buying ivory abroad, therefore I have collected this information.

and I would add: it is not only the recipient that takes a risk, but also the seller

I wanted to share this information which I have received, so maybe someone can use this. And I would just say: even though its a litle risk, there is a risk.

(on the other hand: its all in the game Win Some Lose Some

)

Tatyana Dianova · 4th March 2010, 10:26 AM

Detlef,
Be very careful with the ivory import!
I have bought once in the USA a nice antique Netsuke made from ivory, and it was confiscated by the German customs. If the customs will open the parcel and will see the ivory, and if the CITES papers are not included there, it will be 100% confiscated!
The seller should recieve the CITES paper in his country before sending the ivory - there is no way for you or him to get CITES paper afterwards!!!! I have contactes CITES, I have contacted people in German customs and some German ministry responsible for nature (I do not remember which exactly :-), but there is really no way to get your ivory back from customs hands, if they fetch it without papers! Even if it is really more than 100 years old!
Even more painful was the fact that after the confiscation this very ministry has started an investigation about illegal import of ivory from my side, and said that it is a criminal thing! I think that they wanted to get some money from me, but I was lucky (and clever :-) enough to explain all this matter in such a way that they left me in peace :-)
If I would ever again buy ivory outside the EU, I would contact the seller and ask him to make the CITES papers before sending....

A. G. Maisey · 4th March 2010, 10:41 AM

The red tape and costs associated with import/export of ivory are such that it is a practical exercise for something like an antique harpsichord with ivory keys that is worth $25,000, but for something worth at most a few thousand dollars it is absolutely impractical.

This is the case in respect of the application of CITES regulations in Australia : USA trade.

Tatyana Dianova · 4th March 2010, 02:45 PM

Detlef, It seems that all the parcels are XRayed by the customs on arrival in Germany. When they see a knife or a sword they normally send this parcel to the local customs office, where you should come personally to prove that you are older than 18 years (and pay taxes :-) And normally when you come and open your parcel there, they take a look what is inside (at least at my local customs office in Chemnitz). And in this moment you may get some troubles :-)
Good luck!!!!!

Rick · 4th March 2010, 03:16 PM

Sorry for the edit Tatyana; but we have a rule against discussing how to circumvent Customs .

Tatyana Dianova · 4th March 2010, 08:08 PM

No problem, Rick - and pardon me...

schmoozer · 4th March 2010, 11:16 PM

You are lucky it did not get bumped from eBay in the US. They no longer allow the sale of any item with ivory, regardless of age. Even using hte word in describing celluloid can get it bumped...
I must have been alseep at teh wheel to miss that one! Congratulations!

Sajen · 4th March 2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmoozer

You are lucky it did not get bumped from eBay in the US. They no longer allow the sale of any item with ivory, regardless of age. Even using hte word in describing celluloid can get it bumped...
I must have been alseep at teh wheel to miss that one! Congratulations!

Thank's, maybe the seller really don't know about the material!?

Rick · 5th March 2010, 12:06 AM

Let us see what happens, Sajen; I'm sure we are all awaiting further developments .

In the meantime why not let this subject rest .

Sajen · 5th March 2010, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Let us see what happens, Sajen; I'm sure we are all awaiting further developments .

In the meantime why not let this subject rest .

This is maybe the best.

Sajen · 16th March 2010, 10:28 PM

Yesterday I take the keris by my home custom, I don't have to open the parcel and so no problems. The handle is nice like to seen on the pictures and the keris byself is also not bad. The next days I will show some pictures.

Detlef

David · 16th March 2010, 10:45 PM

I think you are quite fortunate on all accounts here. Nice catch indeed.

Sajen · 17th March 2010, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I think you are quite fortunate on all accounts here. Nice catch indeed.

Thank's David!

Sajen · 28th March 2010, 10:58 PM

Here two pictures from the handle side-by-side with a other Donoriko handle from my collection.

Sajen · 28th March 2010, 11:04 PM

And here pictures from the keris. It need a new stain and I hope that the pittings near the tip of the blade not to bad. The nice sheat seems to be the original one.

danny1976 · 28th March 2010, 11:32 PM

Hi Detlef,

nice hilt , super carvings !

the keris is nice also.

3rd March 2010, 10:09 AM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Ivory handle Hello dear members, in the night I win a keris by e-bay. I bid on this because it have a very nice ivory handle and I never thought that I get it by this price. Here the link: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWNX:IT What do you think? Later at the day I will upload the pictures too. Best, Detlef

3rd March 2010, 06:53 PM	#5
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 169	good bargain, I myself have doubts to bid on this one, but the (antique) ivory hilt made me doubt. So I ask the CITES.org: can I buy antique ivory in another country? and they answered me: under the CITES-Convention is prohibited to export or import between different countries new or antique ivory without the correct papers. (The seller must request an export license and the buyer an import licenses about 80 dollar/60 euro each ) So I hope for you that they do not check the contents, and that you have for a small cost a beautiful keris. good luck Last edited by sirek; 3rd March 2010 at 07:59 PM.

3rd March 2010, 08:36 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Here the pictures from the seller. Attached Images

3rd March 2010, 08:49 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Thank you for the comments. I don't understand why it don't went higher, when I see in the morning that I win it by this price I think I am still dreaming. I am not really afraid to get problems. Detlef Last edited by Sajen; 4th March 2010 at 12:47 AM.

3rd March 2010, 10:24 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Caution My friend, you had better hope that the wrong eyes are not reading this forum . Last edited by Rick; 3rd March 2010 at 10:35 PM.

3rd March 2010, 10:34 AM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	CONGRATURATION!!!! A very very very good win (awesome price)

3rd March 2010, 04:43 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The Seller is located in the U.S. ? Hopefully it will get by Customs ; if it does, you have made a great buy !

3rd March 2010, 07:43 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I'm amazed no one in the U.S. snapped this up .

3rd March 2010, 11:42 PM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	You will have a PM

4th March 2010, 09:24 AM	#15
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 169	Its because I have no experience with buying ivory abroad, therefore I have collected this information. and I would add: it is not only the recipient that takes a risk, but also the seller I wanted to share this information which I have received, so maybe someone can use this. And I would just say: even though its a litle risk, there is a risk. (on the other hand: its all in the game Win Some Lose Some ) Last edited by sirek; 4th March 2010 at 09:38 AM.

4th March 2010, 10:26 AM	#16
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 700	Detlef, Be very careful with the ivory import! I have bought once in the USA a nice antique Netsuke made from ivory, and it was confiscated by the German customs. If the customs will open the parcel and will see the ivory, and if the CITES papers are not included there, it will be 100% confiscated! The seller should recieve the CITES paper in his country before sending the ivory - there is no way for you or him to get CITES paper afterwards!!!! I have contactes CITES, I have contacted people in German customs and some German ministry responsible for nature (I do not remember which exactly :-), but there is really no way to get your ivory back from customs hands, if they fetch it without papers! Even if it is really more than 100 years old! Even more painful was the fact that after the confiscation this very ministry has started an investigation about illegal import of ivory from my side, and said that it is a criminal thing! I think that they wanted to get some money from me, but I was lucky (and clever :-) enough to explain all this matter in such a way that they left me in peace :-) If I would ever again buy ivory outside the EU, I would contact the seller and ask him to make the CITES papers before sending....

4th March 2010, 10:41 AM	#17
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	The red tape and costs associated with import/export of ivory are such that it is a practical exercise for something like an antique harpsichord with ivory keys that is worth $25,000, but for something worth at most a few thousand dollars it is absolutely impractical. This is the case in respect of the application of CITES regulations in Australia : USA trade.

4th March 2010, 02:45 PM	#18
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 700	Detlef, It seems that all the parcels are XRayed by the customs on arrival in Germany. When they see a knife or a sword they normally send this parcel to the local customs office, where you should come personally to prove that you are older than 18 years (and pay taxes :-) And normally when you come and open your parcel there, they take a look what is inside (at least at my local customs office in Chemnitz). And in this moment you may get some troubles :-) Good luck!!!!! Last edited by Rick; 4th March 2010 at 03:16 PM.

4th March 2010, 03:16 PM	#19
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Sorry for the edit Tatyana; but we have a rule against discussing how to circumvent Customs .

4th March 2010, 08:08 PM	#20
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 700	No problem, Rick - and pardon me...

4th March 2010, 11:16 PM	#21
schmoozer Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Seattle, Wa. USA Posts: 12	You are lucky it did not get bumped from eBay in the US. They no longer allow the sale of any item with ivory, regardless of age. Even using hte word in describing celluloid can get it bumped... I must have been alseep at teh wheel to miss that one! Congratulations!

5th March 2010, 12:06 AM	#23
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Let us see what happens, Sajen; I'm sure we are all awaiting further developments . In the meantime why not let this subject rest .

16th March 2010, 10:28 PM	#25
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Yesterday I take the keris by my home custom, I don't have to open the parcel and so no problems. The handle is nice like to seen on the pictures and the keris byself is also not bad. The next days I will show some pictures. Detlef

16th March 2010, 10:45 PM	#26
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,126	I think you are quite fortunate on all accounts here. Nice catch indeed.

28th March 2010, 10:58 PM	#28
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Here two pictures from the handle side-by-side with a other Donoriko handle from my collection. Attached Images

28th March 2010, 11:04 PM	#29
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	And here pictures from the keris. It need a new stain and I hope that the pittings near the tip of the blade not to bad. The nice sheat seems to be the original one. Attached Images

28th March 2010, 11:32 PM	#30
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Hi Detlef, nice hilt , super carvings ! the keris is nice also.