A fake musket rest

[fernando]

Some guy wished to please me and offered me this thing, thinking it would be a musket rest.
I doubt it is something of the kind.
Made of bronze, with some patina, could perhaps be dated XIX century.
I will have to consider visiting a local church and ask someone there (the sexton?) if this could be the fork of a rest used to prop litters, when marching in processions.
Anyone familiar with these devices?
Could it be something else?
Fernando

.

[stekemest]

Yeah, 19th century is very likely if you ask me.

[colin henshaw]

I'll have a guess - maybe part of 19th century brass fire-place equipment/furniture, a firedog component - should be the other way up ?

[fernando]

Hi Colin,

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

I'll have a guess - maybe part of 19th century brass fire-place equipment/furniture, a firedog component - should be the other way up ?

Hmmmm ... Not a bad approach, no sir !
Specially the inversion of it; hence becoming a leg, instead of a head.
Why not? It looks rather balanced.
But then, it must have been out of use for long time; the patina looks regular, where it should be worn by the ground.


Fernando

.

[celtan]

Hi Nandin,

Nice Avatar, I must say, ol'chap.

Cheerios!

: )

M

[fernando]

Originally Posted by celtan

Hi Nandin,

Nice Avatar, I must say, ol'chap.

Cheerios!

: )
M

.

[katana]

Hi 'Nando,
with the patination looking 19th C and the lack of wear inside the fork, a musket rest seems unlikely. The shape does give it the 'right' look but I believe that the rests were used for the heavier, earlier matchlocks....so would be older than the 19thC. A finial perhaps, flag pole? or maybe worse ...a curtain pole finial ...
With such an imagination....the seller should do listings on eBay

Some pictures of musket rests.....

Best
David

[fernando]

Thank you for the fine pictures David.
You may anyway 'rest' assure that i know what musket 'rests' should (more or less) look like, and how old they (more or less) should be; it's the guy that gave me this thing that does not.
As for what this object should really be, i go more for Colin's sugestion that this is a foot for some kind of stand, strongly the fire place device.
My appreciation for your permanent and kind colaboration on deciphering riddles .
Fernando

[celtan]

Modern (1810 : ) version of a musket rest: Swedish m1810 .

Originally Posted by fernando

Thank you for the fine pictures David.
You may anyway 'rest' assure that i know what musket 'rests' should (more or less) look like, and how old they (more or less) should be; it's the guy that gave me this thing that does not.
As for what this object should really be, i go more for Colin's sugestion that this is a foot for some kind of stand, strongly the fire place device.
My appreciation for your permanent and kind colaboration on deciphering riddles .
Fernando

[fernando]

Hi Manolete,

Originally Posted by celtan

... Modern (1810 : ) version of a musket rest: Swedish m1810 ...

You mean a 'rifle' rest ?!

Fernando

[celtan]

No Nandinho, no. : )

The Swedish troops this weapon was designed for during the Napoleonic Wars, the Gotlands Nationalbevarung, carried Smoothbores (Muskets/Fusiles).

In Spain and Portugal, during the _late 19th and 20th_ Cs. Long guns were called Rifle, Mosqueton (Musketoon) or Carabina according to their length, yet _all_ were rifled.

But, in the 18th and early 19th Cs, the British called only their rifled muskets "Rifles", and they extended this name to the units so equipped: The Queen's Rifles, The Lowenstein Rifles etc...

OTOH, in Spain (and Portugal I believe), muskets were classified as "fusiles de anima lisa" (smooth-bores), while rifles were "fusiles de anima rayada" (rifled-bores).

The units initially associated to this type of weapon were the "Rifles" within British Forces, Voltigeurs and Tiralleurs among the French, and Cazadores/Cacadores/Jaegers in the Spanish/Portuguese/German Forces. Eventually, Tiradores were specifically addressed as such.

Rifles were far more expensive and difficult to make. For example, in the defeat of the British Invasion attempt to the island of Puerto Rico in 1797, of about 20k of Abercrombie's troops, only 120 were armed with Rifles, the rest carrying Muskets et al.

And yet, I must also admit that the M1810 Huggare was eventually used with Rifles, although the actual use of this weapon was mostly as a camping and entrenchment tool, to make fascines etc...

Missbehave!

Manolo

Cazadores del Fixo

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Manolete,



You mean a 'rifle' rest ?!

Fernando

[fernando]

Dear Manolo,
I guess my point was missed .
When i mentioned 'rifle' was in the generic sense, intended to distinguish between the ancient musket (rest) and the XIX century thing, as shown in your pictures.
When coming to shoulder arm terminology itself, as you approach, let me tell you this is one the things that have completely different names in castillian and portuguese.
The generic and massively used term over here for shoulder arm is 'espingarda'.
It fits practically all situations, even in the case they have a specific name.
For the hunting arm, you may say 'espingarda de caça' in alternative to the term 'caçadeira'. For the modern military arm, you may say 'espingarda automática'. You also use the 'carabina' term when you wish to distinguish dimensions, but only in the context.
So we don't use 'fusile', 'escopeta' and even 'mosquete', although we use the late for ancient stuff, as in other languages.
Apparently the term 'rifle' is used in Brazil, but this is one of their an americanisms, and not coming from the portuguese.
Hasta luego.
Fernando

[celtan]

Apreciadisimo Nando,

Thanks for the Portuguese class!

I'm very familiar with the term espingarda, it's a widely used term in Galicia.

The term "rifle" used in Brasil may have arisen from British Belize.

Now, espingarda de caca ...

Originally Posted by fernando

Dear Manolo,
I guess my point was missed .
When i mentioned 'rifle' was in the generic sense, intended to distinguish between the ancient musket (rest) and the XIX century thing, as shown in your pictures.
When coming to shoulder arm terminology itself, as you approach, let me tell you this is one the things that have completely different names in castillian and portuguese.
The generic and massively used term over here for shoulder arm is 'espingarda'.
It fits practically all situations, even in the case they have a specific name.
For the hunting arm, you may say 'espingarda de caça' in alternative to the term 'caçadeira'. For the modern military arm, you may say 'espingarda automática'. You also use the 'carabina' term when you wish to distinguish dimensions, but only in the context.
So we don't use 'fusile', 'escopeta' and even 'mosquete', although we use the late for ancient stuff, as in other languages.
Apparently the term 'rifle' is used in Brazil, but this is one of their an americanisms, and not coming from the portuguese.
Hasta luego.
Fernando

[fernando]

Originally Posted by celtan

Now, espingarda de caca ...

.