GUNONG

[nechesh]

I am presenting a newly acquired gunong (thanks rsword) that i suspect is either late 19th or early 20thC. The fittings are all silver and the cross piece appears to be made from a silver coin of some sort.
Do the materials used here (silver and fine burled wood) indicate possible datu ownership? I would imagine the original owner was at least well off. Does anyone know when this form originated? I can't recall ever having seen an example that was from before the mid 19thC. Does anyone have any views on the uses of this weapon? I have read the info on Federico's site, but wonder if anyone has any different or additional thoughts.

[tom hyle]

The blade is of classic half-waved form, eh? It's an old style blade, both in terms of the proportion of length that is waved and in the forged curvature of the waves. Weird looking image on the coin.
I think gunongs are somewhat like some pedangs; more or less a simplified martialized copy of a k(e)ris, with a similar lean/curvature to the double-edged blades. I don't know what to make of the "clipped" point ones; whether that's a Luzon, European, or Indonesian influece (even more like a "tempius").
I suspect that gunong is originally a Lumad weapon, but then I feel that Moros and Visayans are for all intents and purposes originally Lumad people. Probably the oddest gunong I've seen is a Visayan version of the form, with left-handed bevel, probably for espada-y-daga fighting, at a guess.

[Conogre]

The gunongs were allegedly assasin's weapons, easily concealed in the flowing clothing, but later on they became prestige pieces i their own right with sizes meeting or approaching those of the battle keris.
The coin used for the guard looks like it may have been an American silver dollar, the type the had the eagle with a small sun with radiating symbolic rays,
Mike

[tom hyle]

I've heard that, too, about the gunong being for concealment, much as it is said of aikuchi, sgian dhu, and many other smallish guardless or minimally guarded daggers. There's no doubt it can be so worn, but whether that was the usual thing is in the realm of folklore AFAIK, at the moment (not that there's anything wrong with that), and whether the wearers generally considered it concealed or merely tucked away, as for us with pocket knives, is also probably open to interpretation. Most of the sword-sized gunongs I've seen were Lumad, and the Moro ones probably not very old. My Visayan one, on the other hand, has about a 7 or 8 inch blade, and seems c. 19 or very early 20th (spiral horn handle with a supesimplified pommel like one we've seen on a varient bathead sword, horn guard, angle of tang in handle offset to centralise cutting angle of forward edge (as on many old talibons)), but the weird and Spainish/Luzon feature on it is a full length tang. Some Moro ones are tiny, and may even be miniatures (2" overall length....). I think that miniature knives might be a SE Asian artform, BTW, and not neccessarily anything to do with foreigners originally; I see a lot of them, and some seem quite old. Some are jewelry, while others are just tiny.

[nechesh]

I also read the concealed weapon suggestion on Federico's site, but he opens that section by saying that in fact little is actually written on these blades. Just to put size into perspective, the blade is 6 1/4" with an overall length of 10". I don't think the coin is U.S. currency. I do see the remains of an eagle on the other side, but it doesn't look like the kind i have seen on old U.S. coins. Also are the end letters "CA" but i still don't think this is a remnant of the word America. Rick (rsword) suggested a Mexican origin for the coin. I also wonder if this is not a replacement part.

[Spunjer]

that's a wonderful gunong indeed, nechesh. i saw it during gun day in kentucky.

[Justin]

Tom:interesting note about the sgian duhbs,there has never been a recorded act of violence involving one,except for an incident involving a 6 year old prince throwing one across the court room in a temper tantrum!


As for the gunong there is a whole lot of info that seems to be missing,there seem to be multiple disticnt forms some of which feel very very lethal but it seems most of them end up in the WW2 catagory.Yours, I feel was probably made sometime just before that maybe the 20s-30s maybe a little earlier even,but maybe someone more knowledgeable about Moro weapons can help you more.

[Bill]

guess, old blade & sheath, silver work done about 25 years ago, Maranao

[Ian]

Originally Posted by nechesh

I don't think the coin is U.S. currency. I do see the remains of an eagle on the other side, but it doesn't look like the kind i have seen on old U.S. coins. Also are the end letters "CA" but i still don't think this is a remnant of the word America. Rick (rsword) suggested a Mexican origin for the coin. I also wonder if this is not a replacement part.

During the US occupation of the Philippines in the first half of the 20th C., the Philippine coins were stamped "United States of America" and had a Philippine form of the eagle stamped on some of them. The coin probably dates from the period of US occupation.

Ian.

[Battara]

Spunjer and I both saw that puppy here in Louisville. It is an older piece and nice. The coin is silver and Mexican in origin, going back to the mid-last quarter of the 19th century with the rays of the sun and a cap. These coins were common just before the turn of the century in many Spanish colonies.

[nechesh]

Jose, thanks for the addition varification on the coin's origin. I'm not sure about the silver work on the sheath, but i think the ferrule is probably original to the blade.
On a related note i wondered what opinions might be on the example below. It is most probably from Batangas and i assume it was meant for export, but it seems a high quality than similar "tourist" gunongs from the area. The sheath is horn (on both sides; some of these have wood on the back side) as is the hilt. the ferrule and cross piece are brass and there are inlays of M.O.P. with a square "button" of M.O.P. at the pommel.As you can see, both the hilt and the sheath have okir like carvings. I wonder if it is even proper to refer to it as a gunong. Does anyone know if this blade form was used traditionally in that area or do they just turn them out for export? This one seems a bit older than similar examples i have seen (and small - blade 5 3/4", overall almost 11")but i would still imagine it is from the second half of the 20thC. Any ideas?

[tom hyle]

It's a gunong. Not real old, I agree. The blade with its tapered width is a form I see on old-seeming pieces. It appears to be in the handle backwards, though this is not real uncommon, and as it is a fairly symmetrical example, not terribly affecting.....

[Federico]

Nice gunong. Looks like it may be original and complete to me, but then I dont have the benefit of seeing it person. All the hallmarks of an older piece, from blade, to hilt, to scabbard, to materials (Mexican silver dollars were standard currency by early US administrations in PI for many years), etc... Nothing much to add. Though the hidden assassin weapon part, Ive seen it come up in records and memoirs, eg. this dagger was used to kill so and so it was hidden in the turban, etc... But then I cant say this how common this was. My own feeling is that it may have been a rare occurance, like hiding other weapons, but was not the intended daily wear. There are pictures of guongs being worn more openly, and not hidden. Given how plain the vast majority of the older ones are, my own feeling is that they were not intended as assassin weapons, but rather the utility side was more common. The older ones definitely feel more comfortable in the hand to use than the newer ones, and the majority of the old ones I have encountered, given their age, have shown quite a bit of usage which would seem in keeping with a utility origin. Oh, well just some of what I have seen and thought, but anyways just another guess.

As for the Bataangas piece, the Xtian areas, particularly around the Katipunan era, did have a resurgence in traditional forms, and one sees daggers with kris blades popping up with greater frequency. I do not know if we can truly call these piece gunongs, but I figure punal de kris would work just as well.

[Rick]

About a Luzon provenance for your latest example .
The scabbard has a very strong flavor of Mindanao IMO .
Quite similar to the various Women's work knives we see .

[Bill]

as often said, its hard to tell from pictures. The sheath is old, it shows wear marks that should continue, some what, onto the silver work but doesn't apear to. It would make no sense for updating the sheath to silver work without replacing the wood, unless you wanted to make the piece look old, which the original wearer would not. The silver looks to be a very thin guage compared to what we normaly see. As the silver is turned there is some slight bends, in time & with use they would spread out and look like multiple depressions instead of bends. The twisted silver wire looks modern machine made. The stampings are not what is common on Moro pieces, they are well formed & should have deposits that are almost impossible to clean without removing from the hilt. The coin looks to have been put through some sort of rolling mill, the center cut with nice square corners, instead of filed. All these things give me the feel that all the silver work is less then 25 yrs, just my opinion. I'm sure you could take it to a old fashion jeweler, & get a good estimate on when the work was done.

[nechesh]

Well, as you say Bill, pictures can be deceptive. The silver on the sheath and ferrule isn't particlarly thin at all and seems a fairly pure quality. a close examination of the wire work gives me no impression whatsoever that it is machine made. I am not sure what you mean about the coin being "rolled", but it appears to be at it's original thickness and the designs on both sides have usual circulation wear. On close examination the cut is not so clean. Two corners are straight, the other two not. As someone who has had experience filing silver i will say that the work could well have been done by hand without machinery. The wood of the sheath is, unlike the handle, a rather soft wood. It would have marred fairly easily while the much harder silver would not. The blade and the the wood of the sheath are obviously old. I don't know what Rick paid for this item, but i bought it from him for $99 bucks. It seems to me that to do this kind of work on this gunong, even 25 yrs. ago, to try to deceive a buyer into thinking it was old and original to reap a higher price would not be worth it in the end for the seller. But certainly your opinion, even if true, would not take away from my appreciation of the piece. I am much more interested in the historical perspective of the weapon in general, it's origins and place in the cultural hierachy.

[nechesh]

Bill was kind enough to send me this link a while back and i was just waiting for the auction to end to post it, but it slipped my mind. This is the very same type of coin from which the cross piece is made. I almost bid on this so i could have a spare part.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[Battara]

Yup. I have a similar Mexican silver coin. This was not to fool anyone but was easier than having to make a new (at the time) guard out of casting silver (and less work). I have seen this before and on a sipput barong I sold to someone at Timonium recently. I agree with Bill in that I would not worry about the scabbard. Nice puppy. Thought about it myself when Rsword brought it to the show here in Louisville (but ran out of money ).