Kris Restoration...

Spunjer · 17th May 2005, 08:22 PM

recently acquired this wonderful piece on ebay and from the way it looked it has a lot of potential. all it needs is some proper restoration. couple things i noticed right away was the missing asang-asang and the reverse hilt. here are the pictures from the seller:

Spunjer · 17th May 2005, 08:37 PM

i recieved the kris today and i must say it's definitely a beauty! i would like to take the challenge and restore this myself, and if there's any input that you folks would like to add, you're more than welcome. understand that this is my very first attempt in restoring a kris. i've done the first part: removing the blade from the handle. it was easily done by using a circular saw with very fine teeth and delicately cutting between the ferrule and the blade... just kiddin' .

.
by placing the kris in the oven, i was able to remove the handle. my next step is etch the blade. i'm thinking about restaining the tagub and prolly reshaping it into one of those crosspiece-less type. i've already contacted battara with the asang-asang. btw, can anyone shed a light on the provenance and age of this kris? thanks in advance...

Bill · 17th May 2005, 09:04 PM

Myself, I would not restain the hilt; I would clean it the best I could with just removing the dirt trying to not do anything that would damage the original finish, then put som ren wax on it. I would not be so concerned about the patina, but most would. I'm convinced that the kris goes back to at least the 16thC. My guess is that yours is at least 175yrs+. Think that hilt may be 150yrs+, too. Good Luck

Federico · 17th May 2005, 10:34 PM

Nice kris, was eyeing it myself, but Ebay has definitely become much harder to score stuff from without spending $$$. A couple recommendations. When it comes to putting the hilt back on, try pitch instead of a modern epoxy. Its fairly strong, but on the plus side easily removable if further repairs need to be done. Here is what I will normally do for pieces that arrive in ratty condition. I will clean the blade with acetone, which will remove any old dirt and grease. For wood parts, I will clean with a mild solution of warm water and soap (I stress mild). Usually with a sponge. After cleaning, any further blemishes in the wood can be worked on with #0000 steel wool. It is fine enough not to damamge the finish (if you are careful), but will remove alot of the gunk that settles on top of the finish over the years. If your going to etch the blade anyways, try a cleaning etch first with lemon juice to remove old rust. Anyways, the wood of the scabbard looks rough and dry, after cleaning I would suggest an oil solution to rejuvinate the wood. Staining changes the color too much (IMHO) and will age funny, not to mention most stains will do nothing to renourish the dry wood. A little oil (I use a linseed/tung/turpentine mix myself) will add vitality and strength to the wood, and will darken it slightly. However, for me the biggest plus is that it ages properly.

Anyways, as for age, agree with Bill. 150+ sounds good to me.

Spunjer · 18th May 2005, 06:54 AM

thanks bill and federico. the scabbard is so dry, it feels like balsa wood.

Quote:

A little oil (I use a linseed/tung/turpentine mix myself) will add vitality and strength to the wood, and will darken it slightly.

what ratio do you use for this? yeah, basically, that's what i'm trying to attain; a slightly darker scabbard. i'm also thinking about adding rattan binds. as for hilt/blade adhesive i'll definitely use pitch on this one. for etching, i've been using ferric chloride, but i'm thinking of using the more traditional stuff like citric or acetic acid this time. once again, thanks guys...

Federico · 18th May 2005, 07:12 AM

Ive been using a 1/3 ratio for each, maybe a little more tung oil than linseed. Essentially you are making a wiping varnish. Make sure you find boiled linseed oil, the unboiled stuff takes forever to dry. Since its so dry, when you apply, apply thick, let sit for a minute or two (to allow the wood to absorb the oils) and then wipe off the excess with a paper towel. Wipe as much as you can off, let dry for a day, and repeat till you feel satisfied with the look. If it builds up to fast, use #0000 steel wool, and rub between sessions. In the first few coats it will seem like you are removing everything, but you are building up micro-layers that will help bring out the grain of the wood. You can also use tru-oil as well, but while I like it for new projects, its a little too bright for my tastes to use on antique pieces. It should darken down pretty well with oil, if it is the kind of wood I am thinking of. The more sessions you do with the oil, the more the grain will pop out, but its real easy to get carried away (you can actually fill cracks with the oil, and it will help seal smaller cracks), I wish I could a recommended number of sessions, but well I normally get carried away. Once you are satisfied with the look, seal it all with a good wax (ren wax works, other wood waxes can work as well and some may add more protection) to protect the finish, and it will add some shine. When done you should have a good mellow finish, that will only grow darker with age. A great benefit of this process, should anything occur down the road, its real easy to repair. Steel wool the wax, and then re-oil.

As for etching, try doing a cleaning etch with lemon juice. The citric acid bites a little stronger than FECL, and does a great job of cleaning off rust deposits (save some elbow grease with the steel wool). Worse case scenario its etches a little white, but you can always go back with FECL to adjust color.

Mark · 18th May 2005, 03:35 PM

I have used a mix of naptha and boiled linseed oil with good effect. The naptha thins the oil and helps it penetrate, then evaporates. I apply it with 0000 steel wool, gently rubbing it & wiping at first, to remove gunk, then applying a coat to soak in and wiping it clean after a few minutes. I forget the proportions (I mixed up a jar of it a while back, and it has lasted long enough that the info has faded), but the 1/3 sounds about right.

Spunjer · 19th May 2005, 02:01 PM

thanks for your suggestion, mark.

another thing: how do i remove the old galgal/gunk in the handle? i'm sure you guys has some ingenous ways...

Rick · 19th May 2005, 02:29 PM

For a scraper cut a 6" piece of coathanger wire . Flatten one end with a hammer on a metal surface . Give it a proper chisel edge with a file , bend sharpened end to fit .
Sometimes it is easier to make a finger loop at the end for ease of manipulation . Don't make the shaft too long or the flex will interfere with the amount of pressure you want to apply to the working end .

Spunjer · 19th May 2005, 04:30 PM

rick,
the galgal/gunk is rock solid. are there any solutions you can pour to soften this up?

Rick · 19th May 2005, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

rick,
the galgal/gunk is rock solid. are there any solutions you can pour to soften this up?

Is there a lot of it ?

Maybe the thing to do would be to clean and re-heat the tang and try to reset it in the handle in the proper orientation adding some new galgal if needed , the old mastic may still get soft with heat (or it might not).

The problems with pouring stuff into the hole could be many , if you used hot oil you might ruin the hilt for re-mounting by making it too slick .
Any kind of spirits would degrade the finish .

Possibly a narrow straight chisel or chisel sharpened screwdriver could be used to get between the mastic and the wood and gently remove it .
You could also heat the implement .

Bill · 19th May 2005, 05:38 PM

for cleaning the hole of the hilt, try using a long thin screw, lightly using the treads as a file. if you do this holding the hilt hole down, the stuff will just keep falling out, not gathering inside the hilt. I use a 4" eyed, ment go through house siding, & running external wire.

Federico · 20th May 2005, 12:33 AM

Ive done the heat implement thing myself to remove larger chunks of galal. Usually a screwdriver or cheap knife heated hot on a torch (not hot enough to scorch the wood just hot enough to make the pitch run) that I use to attract and rub off the galal. You arent trying to cut into the wood, just soften and wipe out the galal. The galal should run at a lower temp than the wood will burn, so you dont need to over-heat it. You can usually remove 90% of the excess this way without removing wood. After that Ive usually finished cleaning/roughing the area with a sharp chisel. The amount of wood removed at this point should be very very little, as most of the galal should be gone with the hot cleaning. The real purpose of the chisel work is to rough the inside of the puhan so as to create a gripping surface for the pitch to grab a hold of.

Spunjer · 13th July 2005, 02:59 AM

just an update:
asang-asang was made by battara who did an excellent job. also the tagub was stained by using the linseed oil/tang oil/turpentine combo. came out pretty nice.

17th May 2005, 08:22 PM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Kris Restoration... recently acquired this wonderful piece on ebay and from the way it looked it has a lot of potential. all it needs is some proper restoration. couple things i noticed right away was the missing asang-asang and the reverse hilt. here are the pictures from the seller: Attached Images

17th May 2005, 08:37 PM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	i recieved the kris today and i must say it's definitely a beauty! i would like to take the challenge and restore this myself, and if there's any input that you folks would like to add, you're more than welcome. understand that this is my very first attempt in restoring a kris. i've done the first part: removing the blade from the handle. it was easily done by using a circular saw with very fine teeth and delicately cutting between the ferrule and the blade... just kiddin' . . by placing the kris in the oven, i was able to remove the handle. my next step is etch the blade. i'm thinking about restaining the tagub and prolly reshaping it into one of those crosspiece-less type. i've already contacted battara with the asang-asang. btw, can anyone shed a light on the provenance and age of this kris? thanks in advance... Attached Images

13th July 2005, 02:59 AM	#14
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	slowly but surely... just an update: asang-asang was made by battara who did an excellent job. also the tagub was stained by using the linseed oil/tang oil/turpentine combo. came out pretty nice. Attached Images

17th May 2005, 09:04 PM	#3
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Myself, I would not restain the hilt; I would clean it the best I could with just removing the dirt trying to not do anything that would damage the original finish, then put som ren wax on it. I would not be so concerned about the patina, but most would. I'm convinced that the kris goes back to at least the 16thC. My guess is that yours is at least 175yrs+. Think that hilt may be 150yrs+, too. Good Luck

17th May 2005, 10:34 PM	#4
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Nice kris, was eyeing it myself, but Ebay has definitely become much harder to score stuff from without spending $$$. A couple recommendations. When it comes to putting the hilt back on, try pitch instead of a modern epoxy. Its fairly strong, but on the plus side easily removable if further repairs need to be done. Here is what I will normally do for pieces that arrive in ratty condition. I will clean the blade with acetone, which will remove any old dirt and grease. For wood parts, I will clean with a mild solution of warm water and soap (I stress mild). Usually with a sponge. After cleaning, any further blemishes in the wood can be worked on with #0000 steel wool. It is fine enough not to damamge the finish (if you are careful), but will remove alot of the gunk that settles on top of the finish over the years. If your going to etch the blade anyways, try a cleaning etch first with lemon juice to remove old rust. Anyways, the wood of the scabbard looks rough and dry, after cleaning I would suggest an oil solution to rejuvinate the wood. Staining changes the color too much (IMHO) and will age funny, not to mention most stains will do nothing to renourish the dry wood. A little oil (I use a linseed/tung/turpentine mix myself) will add vitality and strength to the wood, and will darken it slightly. However, for me the biggest plus is that it ages properly. Anyways, as for age, agree with Bill. 150+ sounds good to me.

18th May 2005, 07:12 AM	#6
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Ive been using a 1/3 ratio for each, maybe a little more tung oil than linseed. Essentially you are making a wiping varnish. Make sure you find boiled linseed oil, the unboiled stuff takes forever to dry. Since its so dry, when you apply, apply thick, let sit for a minute or two (to allow the wood to absorb the oils) and then wipe off the excess with a paper towel. Wipe as much as you can off, let dry for a day, and repeat till you feel satisfied with the look. If it builds up to fast, use #0000 steel wool, and rub between sessions. In the first few coats it will seem like you are removing everything, but you are building up micro-layers that will help bring out the grain of the wood. You can also use tru-oil as well, but while I like it for new projects, its a little too bright for my tastes to use on antique pieces. It should darken down pretty well with oil, if it is the kind of wood I am thinking of. The more sessions you do with the oil, the more the grain will pop out, but its real easy to get carried away (you can actually fill cracks with the oil, and it will help seal smaller cracks), I wish I could a recommended number of sessions, but well I normally get carried away. Once you are satisfied with the look, seal it all with a good wax (ren wax works, other wood waxes can work as well and some may add more protection) to protect the finish, and it will add some shine. When done you should have a good mellow finish, that will only grow darker with age. A great benefit of this process, should anything occur down the road, its real easy to repair. Steel wool the wax, and then re-oil. As for etching, try doing a cleaning etch with lemon juice. The citric acid bites a little stronger than FECL, and does a great job of cleaning off rust deposits (save some elbow grease with the steel wool). Worse case scenario its etches a little white, but you can always go back with FECL to adjust color.

18th May 2005, 03:35 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I have used a mix of naptha and boiled linseed oil with good effect. The naptha thins the oil and helps it penetrate, then evaporates. I apply it with 0000 steel wool, gently rubbing it & wiping at first, to remove gunk, then applying a coat to soak in and wiping it clean after a few minutes. I forget the proportions (I mixed up a jar of it a while back, and it has lasted long enough that the info has faded), but the 1/3 sounds about right.

19th May 2005, 02:01 PM	#8
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thanks for your suggestion, mark. another thing: how do i remove the old galgal/gunk in the handle? i'm sure you guys has some ingenous ways...

19th May 2005, 02:29 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	For a scraper cut a 6" piece of coathanger wire . Flatten one end with a hammer on a metal surface . Give it a proper chisel edge with a file , bend sharpened end to fit . Sometimes it is easier to make a finger loop at the end for ease of manipulation . Don't make the shaft too long or the flex will interfere with the amount of pressure you want to apply to the working end .

19th May 2005, 04:30 PM	#10
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	rick, the galgal/gunk is rock solid. are there any solutions you can pour to soften this up?

19th May 2005, 05:38 PM	#12
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	for cleaning the hole of the hilt, try using a long thin screw, lightly using the treads as a file. if you do this holding the hilt hole down, the stuff will just keep falling out, not gathering inside the hilt. I use a 4" eyed, ment go through house siding, & running external wire.

20th May 2005, 12:33 AM	#13
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Ive done the heat implement thing myself to remove larger chunks of galal. Usually a screwdriver or cheap knife heated hot on a torch (not hot enough to scorch the wood just hot enough to make the pitch run) that I use to attract and rub off the galal. You arent trying to cut into the wood, just soften and wipe out the galal. The galal should run at a lower temp than the wood will burn, so you dont need to over-heat it. You can usually remove 90% of the excess this way without removing wood. After that Ive usually finished cleaning/roughing the area with a sharp chisel. The amount of wood removed at this point should be very very little, as most of the galal should be gone with the hot cleaning. The real purpose of the chisel work is to rough the inside of the puhan so as to create a gripping surface for the pitch to grab a hold of.