Interesting Spanish Canary Islands Punal

[celtan]

Hi Guys,

Wow, did this thread move fast in the last couple days!

(And just when I had DSL problems...)

My two cents:

"Secessionism" in Spain is as old (at least!), as the pre-roman celtic migrations. They were in continuous wars against each other. Even today, if you visit the mountain hamlets you'd be surprised at the belligerant attitudes between villages simply because they are located on different mountains, valleys etc.. The excuses are limitless. And yet, when you look at the people, their appearance is similar, often sporting the same surnames et al..!

The only thing maintaining Hispania's cohesion was Roman Military Might, then Visigothic, then Castillian etc... ad nauseum.

The modern usage of the world cuchilla in Spanish refers basically to a flat-bladed pocket knife, folding or not.

As I said before, meanings differ according to location. In fact, sometimes words degenerate in their usage according to geographical differences, and end up having the opposite of their original meaning.

I don't see much difference in the Canarias, Mexican and the Albacete knives mentioned. They are probably off-shoots of the same original Mediterranean concept. Wouldn't surprise me if it came with Greek/Carthaginian colonists to Spain, just like the kopis/falcata.

It's a recurring theme for people from different locations to try to claim their own version of "whatever" is different, prettier and "better", even though all the "whatevers" are basically the same.

Compared to Gonzalo's, my direct experiences with Mexico are limited, but in those areas of Northern Mexico I traveled through, the (adult) people I met invariably adressed their language as being "Mexicano", not Spanish. OTOH, they were mostly peasants and laborers, obviously not well educated, and almost always racially American. That may be the clincher.

Regarding Spain's former leader, Francisco Franco, most people don't realize he was an ardent galleguista, but not to the expense of the Nation. In fact, he spoke fluent galaico-portugues.

Franco revelled in his origins, but he also understood the importance of a central official language. His position regarding same merely evoked those of the advising cognoscenti of his era. I happen to agree with his views on it, just like I believe on the need for an official central language in our good ole' US of A. (This doesn't preclude the concurrent and parallel existence of otherl languages within separate ethnic groups.)

Often times, we commit the error of adscribing to people the cause of historical events, when in fact they were merely their product.

In Spain itself, Castillian refers to the dialect spoken in that area, which has become the central official language of Spain. Outside of the peninsula, as in America, it is correct to use the term "Spanish" instead. A similar situation occurs with Italian, German, Chinese etc...

Regarding the "Academia de la Lengua". It is my opinion that it is mostly a political tool for finding common links between Hispanic-based cultures and Nations, and it's anything but strict or even logical regarding the admittance of new words and usages. Basically, anything goes. Personally, I don't use it as reference. IMHO, languages are living entities that change according to local needs, and trying to encompass all changes is simply illogical.

It is very interesting the comment on the shape of the FS "puñal" handle, so similar to the spanish-mediterranean "cuchillos". I had always felt something familiar about the knife, yet could never actually point out what it was. I guess, I couldn't psychologically relate the relatively small and almost dainty FS to the large and brutish Albacetes...

Best regards y'all



M

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Dear Atlantia, the Canary Knife is a classical model related very closely with the antique mediterranean knife. This kind of handle is found even in the old knives from an area of Mexico dedicated at least from the 19th Century (if not from the 18th Century) to the craft of all kind of edged weapons, Sayula. I have one knife from my father, and its handle is almost identical to the canarian knive´s handles, though mine has a crossguard and a blade based on a very antique spanish-mexican model, resembling the Bowie knife´s blade. Those handles were made smooth and they are were very confortable in the hand. They were multipurpose working knives, though used as a weapon when needed. The FS daggers comes from an old model used widely in Europe as a fighting weapon. It has not new ideas in it´s conception, but the adaptation to specific needs, those of the british commandos. The metal handles were already used, and the design of special features to add ´grip´to the handle, were also very well known.
Regards

Gonzalo

Gonzalo my friend
Thank you for joining the thread, and especially for mentioning my modest little Canary knife. I am finding these rather interesting. I wonder if there are any collectors who are experienced enough to identify towns/dates/ even makers themselves from the different handle patterns?

I have learned much from this thread about definitions and correct terminology
What are your thoughts on the strange metal disks in the handle? They seem deliberate additions after the others disks were polished, but that would mean that the handle was polished then the disks were added, which is why they reminded me of the later FS patterns with the improved 'grip'.
Thing is, the disks are fairly thin and rather soft metal. I'm a little puzzled by them.
Also, this is a rather more complex handled example than most I've seen, although the blade is fairly average, why have these rather horrible disks sticking out if not for a reason?
Do you think they are just a mistake/unfinished element?

Kindest Regards
Gene

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Hotspur, the better article I have found on this subject online on this matter, you can find it here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ed=1#post87632

Though, I think you already know it, since the pictures you show are taken from Abel Domenech´s book and are from his property.
Regards

Gonzalo

Hi Gonzalo,

I am not quite sure why you would offer a link back to this very thread? The pictures attached here were done so for ease of viewing and all of them had been posted to the thread I had linked to in that post. I know little to nothing about these knives in general.

To Chris,

Unless Bernard has been somewhat more enlightened than he was when I brought up the A.E.& Co. back in (oh say) 2000, I would likely be spinning my wheels bringing it to his attentions again. The text encircling the company name reads Marca Registrada, so someone might have the company information but it was unknown at the time of my starting the quest in that venue. I see the mark fairly frequently on other examples.

Cheers

Hotspur; is there any thought of the barreled grips being plug bayonet in origin of style?

Here is another quite similar to mine but a fancier blade

[Chris Evans]

Hi Hotspur,

First, I must apologize to Atlantia for hijacking his discussion. I started another thread in Ethongraphic Weapons under Gaucho Knife. Got you an answer, so please see my reply there. Perhaps a moderator could transfer your original post.

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by celtan

Hi Guys,

Wow, did this thread move fast in the last couple days!

Hi Manolo,

Thanks for that very informative post. Didn't know that Franco was a closet `galleguista', but it makes sense, since he was born a `gallego', that is in Galicia. Reminds me a bit of Tito who was a Croat, but upheld Yugoslav unity.

Cheers
Chris

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi Hotspur,

First, I must apologize to Atlantia for hijacking his discussion. I started another thread in Ethongraphic Weapons under Gaucho Knife. Got you an answer, so please see my reply there. Perhaps a moderator could transfer your original post.

Cheers
Chris

LOL, no worries Chris, you're very helpful, I can't complain if others also want to corner you for an opinion

I'm still no closer to deciding if I should remove the excess disk metal or not though!

Regards
Gene

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I'm still no closer to deciding if I should remove the excess disk metal or not though!

Regards
Gene

Hi Gene,

If it was mine, I would be sorely tempted to do so, unless I had several and wanted to keep this one as an oddity.

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gene,

This is a video (in Spanish) on how `naifes' are made. I think that you have an unfinished knife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB8w1...layer_embedded

Cheers
Chris

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi Gene,

This is a video (in Spanish) on how `naifes' are made. I think that you have an unfinished knife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB8w1...layer_embedded

Cheers
Chris

Hi Chris,

Thats a great video! Very interesting, I am still a little baffled why these spacers were left proud of the handle level, but I have to admit that it does seem to be 'unfinished'
So much for my added grip theory! Oh well.
On the 'upside' though, if I trim them and polish the handle the knife will not only be 'finished' but the detail of the inlays will be 'revealed' in their full glory!

I've also been oding some research on these. I believe this size (blade length 15cm-18cm) is called a 'Faldriquera Knife'

I am suprised these arent more sought after, I think they are lovely, and if I thought mine was rather nice, there are some truly astonishing examples to be seen if you search the net.

Best Wishes
Gene

[Atlantia]

Well, I decided to go with public opinion! What do you think of the results guys?

[celtan]

Outstanding!

It does have a certain arabic-berberian look to it. Were the arabs ever in the Canarias?

BTW, the exact term is "falTriquera", a very old term for pocket or bag...

So, the "naif de faltriquera" is an antique... pocket knife!

Regards

M

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Well, I decided to go with public opinion! What do you think of the results guys?

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by celtan

Outstanding!

It does have a certain arabic-berberian look to it. Were the arabs ever in the Canarias?

BTW, the exact term is "falTriquera", a very old term for pocket or bag...

So, the "naif de faltriquera" is an antique... pocket knife!

Regards

M

Hi Manuel,
Thank you very much

I'm not sure if there is any arabic influence in the Canaries?
It does however make a nice companion for the rather elegant 'cousin' I have from Albacete.

I got the name from this page:
http://www.pardelera.com/Webnaife/tipologia.htm

Pocket or Bag knife would make sense considering the small size, I couldn't find a translation of 'Faldriquera', so its interesting to find the origin of the word, thanks again.
The ones with a blade of 15cm or less are apparently called 'Cuchillete' lol, little 'knifette'. Mine has a blade of 16cm, so according to that site falls into the next size category. Assuming my auto translation of the page is reliable.

I do agree also that everyone was right, it is better without the raised disks

Regards
Gene

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gene,



Looks good to me

Cheers
Chris

[kronckew]

lookin' good!

these knives are still being made today, for tourists and for locals who still use them, sadly the only ones i see on line are made from stainless steel and modern grip materials (plastic &/or woods). i have a friend who goes to the canaries on business on occasion, i'm hoping they can pick one up for me, preferably in carbon steel if they still make any.

[Atlantia]

Yay! Cheers Chris

And Thanks Kronckew!
If you have aloose at that site I mention above, theres a description of the different terms for the blade materials:
http://www.pardelera.com/Webnaife/materiales.htm

Carbon steel is refered to as 'hoja negra o canaria' Black leaf or Canaria.

[Gonzalo G]

Gene, you did just fine. I also believe those aluminium discs were unfinished. The knife looks great! I can look for a canarian friend to see if he knows about styles and dates.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Gene, you did just fine. I also believe those aluminium discs were unfinished. The knife looks great! I can look for a canarian friend to see if he knows about styles and dates.
Regards

Gonzalo

Hi Gonzalo.

Thanks, glad you like it
That would be great if you could ask your friend, any extra info would be much appreciated.

Regards
Gene