Keris golok?

A. G. Maisey · 18th April 2009, 03:58 AM

The keris posted by gwirya is not dhapur cundrik according the Surakarta pakem, nor according to the entry in Ensiklopedi.

It is a Lombok form.

Djalengga does not show this form, but he does show the ligan, for which he gives the alternate name of "keris pedang".

He says:- " There is a straight keris shaped like a pedang, or a pedang shaped like a keris.It is called a keris because its base is like a keris, complete with ganja, and it is called a pedang because its blade is like a pedang." (free translation)

Not really colloquial, but what it is called in Lombok, and it is a Lombok form, not a Javanese form, so you cannot align it to a Javanese palace pakem.

As Amuk Murugul said:- "It is difficult to debate the true name of the type unless we are talking the same language,---"

At the moment, I am not prepared to accept that the name for this form is "keris pedang".

It might be, but if it is, I definitely want to know according to whom. I want a reference.

Actually, its not a cundrik either. Origin is Lombok, OK, it might be Bali, but it is coming from Lombok at the moment, and it most certainly is not Jawa. In Lombok a cundrik is a distinct weapon, and the keris dhapur cundrik is a Javanese dhapur, not applicable in Lombok.

Isn't it fun ?

When you start to play "The Name Game" you can get into all sorts of hot water.

Sajen · 18th April 2009, 05:18 AM

Have to accept the explanation from Mr. Maisey, I can't assigned dapur from Surakarta to Lombok.
I found another keris from Bali (?) with this dapur (long version / blade 48 cm) in the second book from Tammens (De Kris 2) on page 234/235, he write by dapur: cundrik-form.

sajen

A. G. Maisey · 18th April 2009, 05:33 AM

The keris shown on P. 234 of Tammens, Vol. 2 does not share the same characteristics as the keris posted by gwirya.

The Tammens example appears to be a ligan, or keris pedang; I say "appears to be", because all we can see is the outline of the blade.

One thing is certain:- it is most definitely not a keris of cundrik form.

18th April 2009, 03:58 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	The keris posted by gwirya is not dhapur cundrik according the Surakarta pakem, nor according to the entry in Ensiklopedi. It is a Lombok form. Djalengga does not show this form, but he does show the ligan, for which he gives the alternate name of "keris pedang". He says:- " There is a straight keris shaped like a pedang, or a pedang shaped like a keris.It is called a keris because its base is like a keris, complete with ganja, and it is called a pedang because its blade is like a pedang." (free translation) Not really colloquial, but what it is called in Lombok, and it is a Lombok form, not a Javanese form, so you cannot align it to a Javanese palace pakem. As Amuk Murugul said:- "It is difficult to debate the true name of the type unless we are talking the same language,---" At the moment, I am not prepared to accept that the name for this form is "keris pedang". It might be, but if it is, I definitely want to know according to whom. I want a reference. Actually, its not a cundrik either. Origin is Lombok, OK, it might be Bali, but it is coming from Lombok at the moment, and it most certainly is not Jawa. In Lombok a cundrik is a distinct weapon, and the keris dhapur cundrik is a Javanese dhapur, not applicable in Lombok. Isn't it fun ? When you start to play "The Name Game" you can get into all sorts of hot water.

18th April 2009, 05:18 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Have to accept the explanation from Mr. Maisey, I can't assigned dapur from Surakarta to Lombok. I found another keris from Bali (?) with this dapur (long version / blade 48 cm) in the second book from Tammens (De Kris 2) on page 234/235, he write by dapur: cundrik-form. sajen

18th April 2009, 05:33 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	The keris shown on P. 234 of Tammens, Vol. 2 does not share the same characteristics as the keris posted by gwirya. The Tammens example appears to be a ligan, or keris pedang; I say "appears to be", because all we can see is the outline of the blade. One thing is certain:- it is most definitely not a keris of cundrik form.