Hypersensitive topics

ariel · 17th March 2009, 05:55 PM

Recently, a thread discussing a KKK sword was closed, because of its sensitive nature.
Understandably, some people are very sensitive to this part of American history, whereas there are some who espouse KKK views to this very day.
Personally, I have very little love for ,or interests in, KKK, its practices, symbols, weapons, history etc.
But what makes me puzzled is the selectivity of our choices: why does the mere mention of KKK provoke such violent reactions , with words cringe, repulsive, shudder being necessary introductions to many responses?
Why Nazi memorabilia can be discussed and collected?
Can we discuss a "hamidie" Ottoman dagger despite its emotional associations with murder of Armenians?
What about Quing dynasty swords? Any sensitivity to 20-30 million people slaughtered during Taiping rebellion?
Qajar dynasty swords? Agha Muhammed Qajar and the sack of Tbilisi, with every woman raped and hamstrung and every man castrated?
Japanese Gunto swords? Rape of Nanjing, anyone?
US weapons? Moro wars?
Many of us would give theiir right arm for a sword of Ghengiz Khan or Timur... Need I say more...
Which topics should be off the table of discussion and why?
Perhaps, none.
After all, this is the site of sword collectors. As long as we limit ourselves to the discussion of material objects and historical facts, and refrain from political/racial/ethnic prejudices ( as is only proper!), we should be OK to diiscuss any weapon of all times and countries.
Any disagreements?

VANDOO · 17th March 2009, 06:54 PM

I AGREE WITH ALL YOU SAY AND NO DOUBT THE FACT THAT WE LIKE AND STUDY WEAPONS AND ARE INTERESTED IN THEIR OFTEN BLOODY PAST WILL BE SEEN BY MANY AS POLITICALLY INCORECT. THEY WILL NO DOUBT THINK SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH US, WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO HAVE THESE TOOLS OF DEATH, TORTURE AND DESTRUCTION BUT AN EVIL PERSON? PROOF CAN BE OFFERED AS WE DISCUSS HEADHUNTERS, CANNIBALS,PIRATES AND ALL MANNER OF WARS AND ATROCITYS HERE ON THE FORUM.
FORTUNATELY THE PRESS HAS NOT TARGETED OUR HOBBY AS POLITACALLY INCORRECT YET BUT THEY COULD EASILY MAKE IT SO BY CONSTANT REPEITITON AND FEATURING RALLYS OF GROUPS OPPOSED TO US AND OUR COLLECTIONS ON THE NEWS. NO DOUBT SOME WOULD BE WILLING TO DESTROY THEIR COLLECTIONS AND REPENT ON A TALK SHOW FOR THE CAUSE AND SOON ANY WHO CONTINUED COLLECTING WOULD BE OUT CAST AND HARRASSED.
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS NOT OPEN TO DISCUSSION AND NO VIEWS OR INFORMATION OFFERED COUNTER TO THAT GIVEN BY THOSE ENFORCING OR CREATING THE NEW POLITICALLY CORRECT RULES WILL BE TOLERATED. ONCE P.C. HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED EMOTIONAL RESPONCE TAKES OVER AND REASON AND LOGIC ARE BANNED AND ANYONE OFFERING A DIFFERENT VIEW OR SAYING OTHERWISE IS EVIL. IN THE REAL WORLD THERE ARE MANY SHADES AND COLORS IN THE WORLD OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS THERE IS ONLY BLACK AND WHITE.

FOR THOSE I OFFEND I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE , I SUPPOSE I AM LIKE DON QUIXOTE JUST TILTING AT WINDMILLS AND LIKE HIM WILL BE THOUGHT A MADMAN FOR EVEN TRYING.

Lew · 17th March 2009, 08:53 PM

[QUOTE=ariel]Recently, a thread discussing a KKK sword was closed, because of its sensitive nature.
Understandably, some people are very sensitive to this part of American history, whereas there are some who espouse KKK views to this very day.
Personally, I have very little love for ,or interests in, KKK, its practices, symbols, weapons, history etc.
But what makes me puzzled is the selectivity of our choices: why does the mere mention of KKK provoke such violent reactions , with words cringe, repulsive, shudder being necessary introductions to many responses?
Why Nazi memorabilia can be discussed and collected?
Can we discuss a "hamidie" Ottoman dagger despite its emotional associations with murder of Armenians?
What about Quing dynasty swords? Any sensitivity to 20-30 million people slaughtered during Taiping rebellion?
Qajar dynasty swords? Agha Muhammed Qajar and the sack of Tbilisi, with every woman raped and hamstrung and every man castrated?
Japanese Gunto swords? Rape of Nanjing, anyone?
US weapons? Moro wars?
Many of us would give theiir right arm for a sword of Ghengiz Khan or Timur... Need I say more...

Gentlemen

The problem is the the Klan is still very active here in the USA. The other examples Ariel mentioned are wars that were fought many years and centuries ago. I believe The KKK is still at war in some ways with our society and therefore should be treated in different way.

Lew

fernando · 18th March 2009, 12:21 AM

Her we go with this eternal cliché about collecting (old) weapons being a target to criticism

.
If our behaviour towards ancient weapons is suficiently inoquous, why can not this be compared to automobiles or motobikes, for example ? you can also get ran down and killed by one of those; or even the sky may fall over you, as Axterix and his mates were afraid; then the sky would be a weapon ... at least for the Gauloise

.
I do think it is not a question whether a determined device is historicaly deadly, but a question of emotional load. Like Lew says, weapons used by contemporaneous sects do not qualify for collectible interest, as their horrendous insignia is much too present in our minds to gain a degree of cultivation that overcomes such trauma.
I do not think that Ariel will read this humble aproach to a pertinent post, as most probably i am included in his ignore list, but amazingly this topic was the only way to take him to post in this section of the Forum

.
But picking on his words, maybe (maybe) he doesn't know that when i tried to sell a nazy sword in the Swap Forum, i was adverted by the moderators that some members 'constrained' about my being allowed to do so

.
Very difficult to please Greeks and Trojans.
Fernando

Jim McDougall · 18th March 2009, 03:57 AM

Great editorials here.........was there a weapon someplace we are discussing.....or could this possibly be .....a philosophical discussion on sensitive issues taking over an attempt to discuss a weapon?
I think there might have been a few inflammatory issues and events left out though in these compilations of every unsavory and disgraceful subject possible, but I think its pretty obvious why this thread is being closed.

C'mon guys! Its about the weapons, not all the other controversial stuff.
Yes, we can focus on the weapon, and I think there are many threads which deal with weapons and stay objective in observations in studying it, thanks to the extra efforts exercised by many of you in avoiding off center comments by your careful wording and expression.

It seemed the reason for the closing of the kkk thread was pretty obvious, and as always I regret closing threads, especially as it is extremely disappointing that it becomes necessary.

This one was a given, and I trust you'll understand.....if not, the rules on controversial topics may offer some insight.

Best regards,
Jim

17th March 2009, 05:55 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Hypersensitive topics Recently, a thread discussing a KKK sword was closed, because of its sensitive nature. Understandably, some people are very sensitive to this part of American history, whereas there are some who espouse KKK views to this very day. Personally, I have very little love for ,or interests in, KKK, its practices, symbols, weapons, history etc. But what makes me puzzled is the selectivity of our choices: why does the mere mention of KKK provoke such violent reactions , with words cringe, repulsive, shudder being necessary introductions to many responses? Why Nazi memorabilia can be discussed and collected? Can we discuss a "hamidie" Ottoman dagger despite its emotional associations with murder of Armenians? What about Quing dynasty swords? Any sensitivity to 20-30 million people slaughtered during Taiping rebellion? Qajar dynasty swords? Agha Muhammed Qajar and the sack of Tbilisi, with every woman raped and hamstrung and every man castrated? Japanese Gunto swords? Rape of Nanjing, anyone? US weapons? Moro wars? Many of us would give theiir right arm for a sword of Ghengiz Khan or Timur... Need I say more... Which topics should be off the table of discussion and why? Perhaps, none. After all, this is the site of sword collectors. As long as we limit ourselves to the discussion of material objects and historical facts, and refrain from political/racial/ethnic prejudices ( as is only proper!), we should be OK to diiscuss any weapon of all times and countries. Any disagreements?

18th March 2009, 12:21 AM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Her we go with this eternal cliché about collecting (old) weapons being a target to criticism . If our behaviour towards ancient weapons is suficiently inoquous, why can not this be compared to automobiles or motobikes, for example ? you can also get ran down and killed by one of those; or even the sky may fall over you, as Axterix and his mates were afraid; then the sky would be a weapon ... at least for the Gauloise . I do think it is not a question whether a determined device is historicaly deadly, but a question of emotional load. Like Lew says, weapons used by contemporaneous sects do not qualify for collectible interest, as their horrendous insignia is much too present in our minds to gain a degree of cultivation that overcomes such trauma. I do not think that Ariel will read this humble aproach to a pertinent post, as most probably i am included in his ignore list, but amazingly this topic was the only way to take him to post in this section of the Forum . But picking on his words, maybe (maybe) he doesn't know that when i tried to sell a nazy sword in the Swap Forum, i was adverted by the moderators that some members 'constrained' about my being allowed to do so . Very difficult to please Greeks and Trojans. Fernando Last edited by fernando; 18th March 2009 at 01:03 AM. Reason: spell

18th March 2009, 03:57 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,929	Great editorials here.........was there a weapon someplace we are discussing.....or could this possibly be .....a philosophical discussion on sensitive issues taking over an attempt to discuss a weapon? I think there might have been a few inflammatory issues and events left out though in these compilations of every unsavory and disgraceful subject possible, but I think its pretty obvious why this thread is being closed. C'mon guys! Its about the weapons, not all the other controversial stuff. Yes, we can focus on the weapon, and I think there are many threads which deal with weapons and stay objective in observations in studying it, thanks to the extra efforts exercised by many of you in avoiding off center comments by your careful wording and expression. It seemed the reason for the closing of the kkk thread was pretty obvious, and as always I regret closing threads, especially as it is extremely disappointing that it becomes necessary. This one was a given, and I trust you'll understand.....if not, the rules on controversial topics may offer some insight. Best regards, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 18th March 2009 at 04:35 AM.

17th March 2009, 06:54 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AGREE WITH ALL YOU SAY AND NO DOUBT THE FACT THAT WE LIKE AND STUDY WEAPONS AND ARE INTERESTED IN THEIR OFTEN BLOODY PAST WILL BE SEEN BY MANY AS POLITICALLY INCORECT. THEY WILL NO DOUBT THINK SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH US, WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO HAVE THESE TOOLS OF DEATH, TORTURE AND DESTRUCTION BUT AN EVIL PERSON? PROOF CAN BE OFFERED AS WE DISCUSS HEADHUNTERS, CANNIBALS,PIRATES AND ALL MANNER OF WARS AND ATROCITYS HERE ON THE FORUM. FORTUNATELY THE PRESS HAS NOT TARGETED OUR HOBBY AS POLITACALLY INCORRECT YET BUT THEY COULD EASILY MAKE IT SO BY CONSTANT REPEITITON AND FEATURING RALLYS OF GROUPS OPPOSED TO US AND OUR COLLECTIONS ON THE NEWS. NO DOUBT SOME WOULD BE WILLING TO DESTROY THEIR COLLECTIONS AND REPENT ON A TALK SHOW FOR THE CAUSE AND SOON ANY WHO CONTINUED COLLECTING WOULD BE OUT CAST AND HARRASSED. POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS NOT OPEN TO DISCUSSION AND NO VIEWS OR INFORMATION OFFERED COUNTER TO THAT GIVEN BY THOSE ENFORCING OR CREATING THE NEW POLITICALLY CORRECT RULES WILL BE TOLERATED. ONCE P.C. HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED EMOTIONAL RESPONCE TAKES OVER AND REASON AND LOGIC ARE BANNED AND ANYONE OFFERING A DIFFERENT VIEW OR SAYING OTHERWISE IS EVIL. IN THE REAL WORLD THERE ARE MANY SHADES AND COLORS IN THE WORLD OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS THERE IS ONLY BLACK AND WHITE. FOR THOSE I OFFEND I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE , I SUPPOSE I AM LIKE DON QUIXOTE JUST TILTING AT WINDMILLS AND LIKE HIM WILL BE THOUGHT A MADMAN FOR EVEN TRYING.

17th March 2009, 08:53 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=ariel]Recently, a thread discussing a KKK sword was closed, because of its sensitive nature. Understandably, some people are very sensitive to this part of American history, whereas there are some who espouse KKK views to this very day. Personally, I have very little love for ,or interests in, KKK, its practices, symbols, weapons, history etc. But what makes me puzzled is the selectivity of our choices: why does the mere mention of KKK provoke such violent reactions , with words cringe, repulsive, shudder being necessary introductions to many responses? Why Nazi memorabilia can be discussed and collected? Can we discuss a "hamidie" Ottoman dagger despite its emotional associations with murder of Armenians? What about Quing dynasty swords? Any sensitivity to 20-30 million people slaughtered during Taiping rebellion? Qajar dynasty swords? Agha Muhammed Qajar and the sack of Tbilisi, with every woman raped and hamstrung and every man castrated? Japanese Gunto swords? Rape of Nanjing, anyone? US weapons? Moro wars? Many of us would give theiir right arm for a sword of Ghengiz Khan or Timur... Need I say more... Gentlemen The problem is the the Klan is still very active here in the USA. The other examples Ariel mentioned are wars that were fought many years and centuries ago. I believe The KKK is still at war in some ways with our society and therefore should be treated in different way. Lew