European swords.Your opinion.

ilias · 28th February 2009, 12:13 PM

Hi everyone.
These swords are up for sale.Can you please inform me if they are original? The first two pistures depict a shord that is claimed to be Hussar's sabre. Do you think it might be Polish? In the third picture there is a short sword. Is it any chance that it might be German?
Sorry for the image quality, it is the best I can do.
Any help would be appreciated!

Lee · 28th February 2009, 01:36 PM

The second sword pictured appears to be a katzbalger and these are often German, 16th century. From your picture, it is not possible to determine if this is an 'original' or reproduction.

See this thread

ward · 28th February 2009, 06:30 PM

It's a hussar saber but I don't think from Poland. Probably English or French, maybe German or Austrian late 18th early 19th c.

David · 28th February 2009, 07:43 PM

Are these for sale in an active auction?

Jim McDougall · 1st March 2009, 12:56 AM

The top sabre appears to be German or possibly Austrian c.1760's as noted by Ward. These were consistant with the British M1788, whose forms seem to have derived from these. In the British examples those by Gill corresponded very much with these German style hilts.

Jim McDougall · 1st March 2009, 08:14 AM

Further review on this very nice sabre suggests it is quite possibly a Hungarian sabre of the 1760's, while it may be Austrian...it is hard to say as Austro-Hungarian swords were closely diffused. These style hilts were as noted used by a number of countries in East Europe, and the form was influental in developing the British M1788 light cavalry sabres.

The key note on this sabre is the straight crossguard quillon, and the shape of the langet, which does correspond to Hungarian styles of this 1760's period and the iron scabbard with inserts of wood has the more ornate cutouts as seen on Austrian and Hungarian examples.

Best regards,
Jim

celtan · 1st March 2009, 06:23 PM

It is a light cavalry sabre a-la-houngraise of the hussar (houzzard, hussard) type. This type of blade was quite common in Europe since the late 1770s, taking from the original polish-hungarian-russian-turkish fast cavalry units of preceding times. The blade type saw use by Hussars, Lancers, Chasseurs and even Flying Artillery Units. They were made in Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, Russia, Norway etc... You'd need to check any marking on the weapon for further info.

The katzbalger or cat-skinner was the preferred short weapon of the swiss knights-of-the-land (lanssknecht/lasquenetes) mercenary units, but were also used by german infantry. This particular example's blade tip is too pointy, suggesting probably a recent manufacture. All the katzbalgers I have seen sport a rounded tip, either because of design or sheer wear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilias

Hi everyone.
These swords are up for sale.Can you please inform me if they are original? The first two pistures depict a shord that is claimed to be Hussar's sabre. Do you think it might be Polish? In the third picture there is a short sword. Is it any chance that it might be German?
Sorry for the image quality, it is the best I can do.
Any help would be appreciated!

ilias · 2nd March 2009, 06:04 PM

Thank's everyone for the information you have given me.
Yes David these are for sale in an auction.
Thank's again

Jim McDougall · 3rd March 2009, 04:16 AM

Good grief!
I have to close another thread...this is a live auction..

28th February 2009, 12:13 PM	#1
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	European swords.Your opinion. Hi everyone. These swords are up for sale.Can you please inform me if they are original? The first two pistures depict a shord that is claimed to be Hussar's sabre. Do you think it might be Polish? In the third picture there is a short sword. Is it any chance that it might be German? Sorry for the image quality, it is the best I can do. Any help would be appreciated! Attached Images

28th February 2009, 01:36 PM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Katzbalger The second sword pictured appears to be a katzbalger and these are often German, 16th century. From your picture, it is not possible to determine if this is an 'original' or reproduction. See this thread

28th February 2009, 06:30 PM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	It's a hussar saber but I don't think from Poland. Probably English or French, maybe German or Austrian late 18th early 19th c.

28th February 2009, 07:43 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Are these for sale in an active auction?

1st March 2009, 12:56 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,950	The top sabre appears to be German or possibly Austrian c.1760's as noted by Ward. These were consistant with the British M1788, whose forms seem to have derived from these. In the British examples those by Gill corresponded very much with these German style hilts.

1st March 2009, 08:14 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,950	Further review on this very nice sabre suggests it is quite possibly a Hungarian sabre of the 1760's, while it may be Austrian...it is hard to say as Austro-Hungarian swords were closely diffused. These style hilts were as noted used by a number of countries in East Europe, and the form was influental in developing the British M1788 light cavalry sabres. The key note on this sabre is the straight crossguard quillon, and the shape of the langet, which does correspond to Hungarian styles of this 1760's period and the iron scabbard with inserts of wood has the more ornate cutouts as seen on Austrian and Hungarian examples. Best regards, Jim

2nd March 2009, 06:04 PM	#8
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Thank's everyone for the information you have given me. Yes David these are for sale in an auction. Thank's again

3rd March 2009, 04:16 AM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,950	Good grief! I have to close another thread...this is a live auction..