Non European forces proving themselves Vs European military might

Jim McDougall · 24th January 2009, 02:48 AM

I'm glad you joined in Fernando, and nicely presented description of the earlier swordsmanship, which certainly does fall within the scope of this thread.....except the bs note

The valued information you always provide is anything but! and as I have noted many times, your knowledge and sharing of historical material with keenly applied and important Portuguese perspective is outstanding. Thank you.

Thank you David, for the links to those threads, which really were interesting and apply nicely here.

Gene, I have more 'doh' moments than I can recall, and my little knowledge of fencing was more years ago than I care to admit, there was a guy named Cyrano hanging around

Regarding the military, again way back when, from what I can recall, in the other ranks, carrying out drill, inspections and all manner of military daily humdrum...guys did what they had to to avoid discipline or conflict, and avoided whatever they could get away with. In the times we are discussing, the 19th century, it was certainly the same from most accounts. The swords issued to troopers were an issued encumbrance, and were likely used in the field in all manner of utility as a matter of convenience, with little thought of dulling the blade as chopping a bit of firewood etc. They were then slid back into the unprotected iron scabbard, probably not oiled or especially cleaned off from whatever use they had been subjected.

Leaving for a moment, the complacency being described toward issued swords in the British ranks, we can look to the use of the sword in America in the 19th century. The cavalry tried to maintain the tradition of the sword, but firearms had established their superiority. One of the primary regulation troopers swords, though other forms had existed earlier, was the M1840 cavalry sabre. It is a well known collaquialism that these became termed 'the old wristbreaker'. The reason for this is that the men were so poorly trained in the use of these heavy sabres, that when they did try to use them, in the presumed fashion, they did not properly understand the dynamics, and thus probably did injure themselves.
During the Civil War, the few recorded wounds resulting from sabres were actually blunt force trauma, as the swords were so dull they seldom ever penetrated skin in the slashing blows.
The only reason for including this along with the European theme here, is to show that the regulation military apathy toward the issued swords in the 19th century was quite widespread.

All best regards,
Jim

24th January 2009, 02:48 AM	#20
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	I'm glad you joined in Fernando, and nicely presented description of the earlier swordsmanship, which certainly does fall within the scope of this thread.....except the bs note The valued information you always provide is anything but! and as I have noted many times, your knowledge and sharing of historical material with keenly applied and important Portuguese perspective is outstanding. Thank you. Thank you David, for the links to those threads, which really were interesting and apply nicely here. Gene, I have more 'doh' moments than I can recall, and my little knowledge of fencing was more years ago than I care to admit, there was a guy named Cyrano hanging around Regarding the military, again way back when, from what I can recall, in the other ranks, carrying out drill, inspections and all manner of military daily humdrum...guys did what they had to to avoid discipline or conflict, and avoided whatever they could get away with. In the times we are discussing, the 19th century, it was certainly the same from most accounts. The swords issued to troopers were an issued encumbrance, and were likely used in the field in all manner of utility as a matter of convenience, with little thought of dulling the blade as chopping a bit of firewood etc. They were then slid back into the unprotected iron scabbard, probably not oiled or especially cleaned off from whatever use they had been subjected. Leaving for a moment, the complacency being described toward issued swords in the British ranks, we can look to the use of the sword in America in the 19th century. The cavalry tried to maintain the tradition of the sword, but firearms had established their superiority. One of the primary regulation troopers swords, though other forms had existed earlier, was the M1840 cavalry sabre. It is a well known collaquialism that these became termed 'the old wristbreaker'. The reason for this is that the men were so poorly trained in the use of these heavy sabres, that when they did try to use them, in the presumed fashion, they did not properly understand the dynamics, and thus probably did injure themselves. During the Civil War, the few recorded wounds resulting from sabres were actually blunt force trauma, as the swords were so dull they seldom ever penetrated skin in the slashing blows. The only reason for including this along with the European theme here, is to show that the regulation military apathy toward the issued swords in the 19th century was quite widespread. All best regards, Jim