Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 31st December 2008, 09:25 PM   #1
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default Seadajak Parang with rare scabbard

Seadajak Sword with old type Handle and rare scabbard .

Brass inlay on the back and the side .


Ben


ps Michael did you see an scabbard with that rare end ???
Attached Images
         
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 11:05 AM   #2
Maurice
Member
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,334
Default

Hi Ben,


Happy new year!!
Great looking parang.
It is nice to see the similarities in style with this handle of yours to the higher Coppenshandle Michael has!

How old it was estimated you told me these handles were in fashion? (I can,t quite remember). I believed you told me about 1875?

Also nice carved scabbard!!

Maurice
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 03:29 PM   #3
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
Default

Congratulations!

The best one of your newly acquired parang I have seen so far in 2009!
It's very close to the Jimpul I traded with your for the LT in style.
Actually I think it's a Jimpul variation even if the tip isn't squarish.
On the scabbard end I have never seen it before on anything else than Pandat (enclosed an example).
So I assume that it's inspired from the Land Dayaks in style?

Michael
Attached Images
 
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 04:03 PM   #4
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Happy New Year, interesting handle, the forming of the gunge around the top and the silver coin. What is the metal on the grip?
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 05:41 PM   #5
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
Congratulations!

The best one of your newly acquired parang I have seen so far in 2009!
It's very close to the Jimpul I traded with your for the LT in style.
Actually I think it's a Jimpul variation even if the tip isn't squarish.
On the scabbard end I have never seen it before on anything else than Pandat (enclosed an example).
So I assume that it's inspired from the Land Dayaks in style?

Michael
Hi Maurice that is correct .

Hi Michael maybe it is the other way around that is the way I like to find out.

I think that there are 2 variations off pandats that one type did belong to the seadayaks but I never did found any proof that this right or wrong .

You are right whit thinking that there must be a few variations of the Jimpul
type we know from the shelford publication .
I see to much of this type very old ones .
You have also a few maybe you can post them also here to compare .

Compare your Oldman and your Coppens both maybe same age different area
different style .

The metal on the Handle is not silver Tim but could be an mix .

Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 05:44 PM   #6
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

It could be tin? but most likely a local silver. Tin lead and silver?
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 05:51 PM   #7
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Hi Tim no not tin it is more metal mix whit maybe a little silver but it is to strong to be silver and I put an boiled eg against it and no reaction so no much silver in it anyway .

The coins are silver from the netherlands .

Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 06:39 PM   #8
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Well if not alloyed with silver. It is most likey a tin solder wire. Or possibly Britannia metal which is not that far removed from tin solder.

Last edited by Tim Simmons; 1st January 2009 at 07:09 PM.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 07:24 PM   #9
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Paktong.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 07:39 PM   #10
katana
Member
 
katana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
I put an boiled eg against it and no reaction so no much silver in it anyway .

Ben

Hi Ben,
I didn't know this....am I right that the 'white' of the boiled egg changes colour when in contact with silver ? Can you 'gauge' the silver content by the speed of the 'reaction'.... is the colour change 'darker'... the higher the silver content ? Could you explain..Thank you

Regards and Happy New Year

David
katana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 07:55 PM   #11
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Hi David


I use the yellow after the white and my expiriance is the faster and darker the more silver is in it try to eath an boiled eg with an silver spoon .


Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 07:58 PM   #12
katana
Member
 
katana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
Hi David


I use the yellow after the white and my expiriance is the faster and darker the more silver is in it try to eath an boiled eg with an silver spoon .


Ben
Thank you Ben
katana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 08:10 PM   #13
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
Well if not alloyed with silver. It is most likey a tin solder wire. Or possibly Britannia metal which is not that far removed from tin solder.

Is that the same as berlin silver


Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2009, 08:50 PM   #14
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,217
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
Is that the same as berlin silver
Do you mean German Silver?
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2009, 05:31 AM   #15
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Hi Jose yes I mean German silver overhere in Netherlands/Germany they call it Berlin silver.

I think the English call it alpacca but not sure .


Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2009, 09:23 AM   #16
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
Default

Hi Ben,

There are two styles of pandat but they are Sidin and Bennah according to Shelford (see examples in order).
The ones with the resembling scabbard end as your parang are Sidin.
So I assume that you suspect that it's the Sidin version that somehow is connected to Iban?

On jimpul variations I consider the following two jimpul too even if they don't have the squarish end of the blade.

Michael
Attached Images
       
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2009, 11:23 AM   #17
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,224
Default

Quote:
English call it alpacca but not sure
Found the following :
Alpaca / Berlin silver :
copper: 64 à 65 %
zinc: 23 à 24%
nickel: 12%

But I can imagine if it is locally made any combination of materials could be used.

best regards,
Willem
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2009, 07:37 AM   #18
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

My second Seadajak parang did get it yesterday.

It does have an heavy blade and little heads on the handle .

And very long hair from the handle .

Ben
Attached Images
          
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2009, 12:24 PM   #19
Maurice
Member
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,334
Default

Hi Ben,


Nice example....
I have not often seen these kind of little faces on the handles. Also the carvings on the scabbard I do like.
Are those metal bands on the scabbard?

Maurice
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2009, 03:33 PM   #20
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Hi Maurice yes metal bands .

Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2009, 04:42 PM   #21
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
Default

Another beauty!

Somehow this one doesn't look as much as a jimpul as your first.
Could be because of the krowit and that the fuller ends before it?
Maybe it's more related to the Gayang of W Sabah and NW Sarawak?
Ben, what's your instinctive feeling when holding it IRL?

Michael
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2009, 05:17 PM   #22
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Ben, you need to get that white metal tested properly. I have been thinking about your test, I could eat a boiled egg every day for a month and a silver spoon may still not tarnish. It does already look tarnished.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2009, 05:36 PM   #23
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
Another beauty!

Somehow this one doesn't look as much as a jimpul as your first.
Could be because of the krowit and that the fuller ends before it?
Maybe it's more related to the Gayang of W Sabah and NW Sarawak?
Ben, what's your instinctive feeling when holding it IRL?

Michael
Hi Michael it is smaller but it is an heavy one .

In real it looks much better.

But first one is the best these 2 comes from the same collector has the best Parang Ilang collection that I know with the rarest piece s.

Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2009, 06:54 PM   #24
Mytribalworld
Member
 
Mytribalworld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
Hi Michael it is smaller but it is an heavy one .

In real it looks much better.

But first one is the best these 2 comes from the same collector has the best Parang Ilang collection that I know with the rarest piece s.

Ben
Hi Ben,

here the pic I promised ( the one in the middle)

Arjan
Attached Images
  
Mytribalworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2009, 06:47 AM   #25
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Hi Arjan can you also show us what type off blade it is ?

that one down below is that also an seadajak parang ???

Thanks Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2009, 01:53 PM   #26
Mytribalworld
Member
 
Mytribalworld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
Hi Arjan can you also show us what type off blade it is ?

that one down below is that also an seadajak parang ???

Thanks Ben
Hi Ben,

No In my opinion the lower is a Dusun mandau from Kinabatingan area.


Arjan.
Attached Images
    
Mytribalworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2009, 03:01 PM   #27
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Although this is not as curved and I know little about these really. I can see some similarities to the blade and the scabbard. Any more information would be very nice to know. This is my a favourite.
Attached Images
        
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2009, 06:01 PM   #28
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandaukudi
Hi Ben,

No In my opinion the lower is a Dusun mandau from Kinabatingan area.


Arjan.
Nice blade that lower one I did ask because I see same style scabbard but with an
LT style blade in the scabbard after I left your nice shop .

Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2009, 11:17 PM   #29
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
Default

Arjan, I am a bit puzzled with the hilt on the middle one?
Please let me know why it's Iban?
Is the lower one a Parang Gayang?

Tim, yours is nice too but I think you should post it in a separate thread as it's not related to the ones discussed in this thread. It's to confusing otherwise to comment it in relation to the other ones.

Michael
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2009, 08:46 AM   #30
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Micheal I do not mean to confuse anybody, I am a bit confused that might be why I post it here. I like many others probably just see mandau. I just noted some similarity in the scabbard colour and binding also the blade. You guys seem to have all the answers?
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.