keris for comment

semar · 26th November 2008, 12:20 PM

hello guys who can tell me more about this keris pamor and dapur

tunggulametung · 6th December 2008, 03:27 AM

Pamor might be ganggang/ganggeng kanyut - floating algae.
Dhapur might be sempaner/sepaner/sempana bener/supana bener, a complete ricikan for the dhapur is is kembang kacang, jalen, lambe gajah, tikel alis, ri pandan (some not clearly/no longer visible on this particular piece). A popular dhapur.

kulbuntet · 7th December 2008, 05:12 PM

Hi Hans,

looks like a realy old piece. majapahit??

A. G. Maisey · 7th December 2008, 09:40 PM

Nope.

Mojo has an elongated blumbangan, in form not dissimilar to SKA.

David · 8th December 2008, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Nope.

Mojo has an elongated blumbangan, in form not dissimilar to SKA.

SKA?

A. G. Maisey · 8th December 2008, 02:08 AM

Sorry David.

Surakarta.

Its not just the blumbangan, I just mentioned that in passing because its the most obvious, there's a heap of other indicators too.

David · 8th December 2008, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Sorry David.

Surakarta.

Its not just the blumbangan, I just mentioned that in passing because its the most obvious, there's a heap of other indicators too.

Thanks Alan, i wasn't familiar with that abbreviation.

A. G. Maisey · 8th December 2008, 04:39 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't expect you or most others to know it, I just threw that comment in without thinking. Sorry.

kulbuntet · 8th December 2008, 06:00 PM

Oke Alan,

Please tell us more about tanguh indicators. And the tanguh of this keris can be?

regards
M

A. G. Maisey · 8th December 2008, 09:32 PM

Sorry Michel.

No.

This question has come up time and time and time and time again.

It is absolutely impossible to give useable, worthwhile information about the tangguh system of classification using print and photographs as the medium.

In my opinion it simply cannot be done.

You need close personal instruction over an extended period of time.

If you go to my site you will find a short explanation of tangguh, and at the present time this is probably all I am prepared to try to impart about it. If I started to try to explain how to apply it, any attempted explanation would only create confusion.

Similarly, you have asked me what tangguh I think this keris of Semar's might be.

From a photo I am not prepared to guess. There are several possibilities, and it would be a waste of time and misleading to enumerate them.

I can say with some certainty what it definitely is not, I cannot say with any certainty what it may be.

Bear this in mind:- tangguh is essentially an opinion, however, if one gives that opinion, one must be able to support the opinion with reasoned argument. In most cases, this cannot be done from a photograph.

The other thing to bear in mind is this:- the tangguh system was developed to apply to a particular class of keris, and for a particular reason. Over time it has become popular to try to give every blade a tangguh classification, no matter what the quality or condition of that blade may be.

The further we move away from very high quality blades made by very competent makers, according to quite rigid standards, the more the opinion of the applicable tangguh is open to question.

kulbuntet · 8th December 2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Sorry Michel.

You need close personal instruction over an extended period of time.

Oke, next question. When are you comming to Holland Alan? And please take your time. I think that there are a lot of people who like to meet you in person, and maybe you can give a reading on a meeting of the dutch keris study group?

A. G. Maisey · 9th December 2008, 02:26 AM

Probably never.

But that said, there is an outside possibility that I may be in Italy either late in 2009 , or maybe 2010. However, the amount of info that could be imparted about tangguh in a single short meeting, is not really very much. About the best anybody could hope for would be to gain an understanding of how the system works.

In any case, it is primarily a system of classification, and it is arguable if it has any real meaning outside Jawa. There are other things to learn about the keris than this.

26th November 2008, 12:20 PM	#1
semar Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 272	keris for comment hello guys who can tell me more about this keris pamor and dapur Attached Images

6th December 2008, 03:27 AM	#2
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Pamor might be ganggang/ganggeng kanyut - floating algae. Dhapur might be sempaner/sepaner/sempana bener/supana bener, a complete ricikan for the dhapur is is kembang kacang, jalen, lambe gajah, tikel alis, ri pandan (some not clearly/no longer visible on this particular piece). A popular dhapur.

7th December 2008, 05:12 PM	#3
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Hi Hans, looks like a realy old piece. majapahit??

7th December 2008, 09:40 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Nope. Mojo has an elongated blumbangan, in form not dissimilar to SKA.

8th December 2008, 02:08 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Sorry David. Surakarta. Its not just the blumbangan, I just mentioned that in passing because its the most obvious, there's a heap of other indicators too.

8th December 2008, 04:39 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Yeah, I wouldn't expect you or most others to know it, I just threw that comment in without thinking. Sorry.

8th December 2008, 06:00 PM	#9
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Oke Alan, Please tell us more about tanguh indicators. And the tanguh of this keris can be? regards M

8th December 2008, 09:32 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Sorry Michel. No. This question has come up time and time and time and time again. It is absolutely impossible to give useable, worthwhile information about the tangguh system of classification using print and photographs as the medium. In my opinion it simply cannot be done. You need close personal instruction over an extended period of time. If you go to my site you will find a short explanation of tangguh, and at the present time this is probably all I am prepared to try to impart about it. If I started to try to explain how to apply it, any attempted explanation would only create confusion. Similarly, you have asked me what tangguh I think this keris of Semar's might be. From a photo I am not prepared to guess. There are several possibilities, and it would be a waste of time and misleading to enumerate them. I can say with some certainty what it definitely is not, I cannot say with any certainty what it may be. Bear this in mind:- tangguh is essentially an opinion, however, if one gives that opinion, one must be able to support the opinion with reasoned argument. In most cases, this cannot be done from a photograph. The other thing to bear in mind is this:- the tangguh system was developed to apply to a particular class of keris, and for a particular reason. Over time it has become popular to try to give every blade a tangguh classification, no matter what the quality or condition of that blade may be. The further we move away from very high quality blades made by very competent makers, according to quite rigid standards, the more the opinion of the applicable tangguh is open to question.

9th December 2008, 02:26 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Probably never. But that said, there is an outside possibility that I may be in Italy either late in 2009 , or maybe 2010. However, the amount of info that could be imparted about tangguh in a single short meeting, is not really very much. About the best anybody could hope for would be to gain an understanding of how the system works. In any case, it is primarily a system of classification, and it is arguable if it has any real meaning outside Jawa. There are other things to learn about the keris than this.