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Old 1st December 2008, 09:19 PM   #1
Matchlock
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Default Two men needed to aim and fire a 500 year old wall piece

From the Maximilianische Zeugbücher (Maximilian arsenal inventory books), ca. 1507, and posted in earlier threads, depicting both the aiming man (Richtschütze) and the firing one (Feuerschütze) at work.

Have fun,

Michael
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Old 2nd December 2008, 06:11 AM   #2
Pukka Bundook
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Thank you for answering my questions, Michael.

Is there a reason for the muzzle of the brass barrel from Innsbruck/The Tyrol being half-round, right at the muzzle?.........purely decoration?

I just went to your thread re. the Schloss Kronburg wall piece, and found it very fascinating, how it and other arms survived bricked up in a small room for hundreds of years!
Finding something like that is the stuff of dreams!
It is good that the wall-pieces were stood on a thick plank, and not on a damp floor.
May I ask if your Landsknecht's harquebus of 1539 is meant to be fired from the shoulder?.....I think not, but do not really know!

Re. the slightly damaged butt-stocks, I would suppose that a form of butt-plate would be quite an early invention, as the constant up-and- down in loading, and just carrying and setting dowm, would soon leave their mark.
That these pieces have survived with such small amounts of damage after all these years, is truly remarkable!
Thank you for tha additional pictures, and links!

Very best wishes,

Richard.
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Old 2nd December 2008, 04:10 PM   #3
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Richard,

The half rounded muzzle is an ornament characteristic of the 1520's-1530's and disappears right after.

The stock of my 1539 harquebus is definitely apt to be fired from the shoulder; please study the Nürnberg illustration of 1532 posted again below - it depicts almost the same kind of stock. On the other hand there are historic illustrations showing harquebuses being held freely in front of the breast or even the belly well up to mid 16th century. So these short guns were handled either way. We sometimes even see them put on top of the shoulder, which actually hardly makes any sense.

Actually, the first butt-plates appeared in the 1530's and were made of bone, like in crossbows, but only for high quality decorated pieces. Plain military guns were generally made without butt-stock protection up to the early 17th century although in some cases we find iron butt-plates as early as the 1580's. They seem to have become standardized widely only by the beginning of the Thirty Years War, though.

Btw, I started a thread on its own on the aiming of guns in late 15th to mid 16th century illustrations.

Michael
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Old 3rd December 2008, 03:41 PM   #4
Pukka Bundook
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Thanks for your reply, Michael.

In the pictures above, I could not decide if the stock was being held against the shoulder or not. To me, it looked short, as though it was being held in the hands, and not against the shoulder.
This may be just the artists impression, and makes it rather difficult to say for sure.
If your gun is long enough in the stock to fit aginst the shoulder, then this is very good information to have! (even if the stock is rather short for a modern man,,,)

A Q. re. the rests the guns are fired from in the above paintings;

I see in each of the pictures, the plank of the rest is half-lapped in the centre, and bound with iron.
Do you know if they were joined such as an aid in transporting them?
I cannot think they each had a join like this simply because the planks were too short.

Thank you again for your time!

Richard.
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Old 3rd December 2008, 05:13 PM   #5
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You are right, Richard,

Short harquebuses usually have very short buttstocks mostly meant be held in the firer's hands in front of his breast.

My Straubing harquebus is an exception from that rule in having a rather long buttstock while its pal, still preserved at the Straubing museum, is proportioned perfectly. Maybe mine was stocked for a guy with longer arms.

Like you, I have often wondered because of those Maximilian rests. I am not able to solve the problem, sorry. Your command of physics is much better than mine, no doubt about that.

Michael
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Old 4th December 2008, 06:17 AM   #6
Pukka Bundook
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Michael,

Thank you for again answering my questions re. buttstock lengths.
I know of no other source I could turn to for this information!

Thank you for sharing details on early butt-plates, as I was in the dark about these as well!
Maybe the Maximilian rests must remain a mystery....and a mystery it is, how each one is joined in exactly the same manner.

All the best,

R.
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Old 5th December 2008, 07:58 PM   #7
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Richard,

I am afraid that no one ever cared for such minuteae (in fact, Jim's gotta be credited my for teaching me that charmin' Latin word - hope I spelt it right; I used to be good at Latin at grammar school but forgot most of it by now ... ) before.

We do, though ...

m
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