Orientation of the grip of this keris

A. G. Maisey · 20th November 2008, 08:08 AM

Yes Michel, that's the obvious interpretation of "chieftain".

Don't get me wrong:- I understand the word itself, I just have no idea of why this keris type is called this name, I also have no idea of exactly what a "chieftain" is in the cultural context of these societies.

If a Malay word were to be used to describe this type of keris, we would probably have a pretty good idea of exactly what was meant, and the relevant connotations, but "chieftain"?---sorry, I do not understand.

If it is true that the elites of some cultural group wore keris with a bigger than usual wrongko, can we identify the specific cultural group, persons permitted this style within the cultural group, location, time period, source of information,---etc, etc, etc? In other words:- what do we know and how do we know it?

Whenever we give an opinion on something, that opinion is usually based upon our experience. We might come to a particular conclusion after some years of observing various factors from various sources, and our experience can be of varying types, varying integrity, and varying durations. But when all is said and done, an opinion is just somebody's good guess. It could well be wrong. However, with this "chieftain" name tag, I see it recurring consistently, and I doubt that it is based on experience, but rather upon information from some source. The gap in my knowledge is that I do not know the source, and not knowing the source, I don't really understand what it means.

As for the reversed grip, as I have already stated, the ones I have handled with reversed grips were of the same type,and these grips were not easily removeable, both were firmly stuck in place with damar. Perhaps Freddy's keris grip was not stuck with damar, and perhaps its reversal was the result of some ill advised removal and replacement, but the fact remains that the blade type seems to fall within the same classification as my two that had reversed grips. I do most strongly believe that this grip reversal was a practice that was observed by some group of people at some time. Who, when, where, why, I cannot even guess.

20th November 2008, 08:08 AM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes Michel, that's the obvious interpretation of "chieftain". Don't get me wrong:- I understand the word itself, I just have no idea of why this keris type is called this name, I also have no idea of exactly what a "chieftain" is in the cultural context of these societies. If a Malay word were to be used to describe this type of keris, we would probably have a pretty good idea of exactly what was meant, and the relevant connotations, but "chieftain"?---sorry, I do not understand. If it is true that the elites of some cultural group wore keris with a bigger than usual wrongko, can we identify the specific cultural group, persons permitted this style within the cultural group, location, time period, source of information,---etc, etc, etc? In other words:- what do we know and how do we know it? Whenever we give an opinion on something, that opinion is usually based upon our experience. We might come to a particular conclusion after some years of observing various factors from various sources, and our experience can be of varying types, varying integrity, and varying durations. But when all is said and done, an opinion is just somebody's good guess. It could well be wrong. However, with this "chieftain" name tag, I see it recurring consistently, and I doubt that it is based on experience, but rather upon information from some source. The gap in my knowledge is that I do not know the source, and not knowing the source, I don't really understand what it means. As for the reversed grip, as I have already stated, the ones I have handled with reversed grips were of the same type,and these grips were not easily removeable, both were firmly stuck in place with damar. Perhaps Freddy's keris grip was not stuck with damar, and perhaps its reversal was the result of some ill advised removal and replacement, but the fact remains that the blade type seems to fall within the same classification as my two that had reversed grips. I do most strongly believe that this grip reversal was a practice that was observed by some group of people at some time. Who, when, where, why, I cannot even guess.