Origin of the kampilan?

Maurice · 27th October 2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

AS WELL AS ANIMALS MOST SPIRITS AND ASSOCIATED WITH LIFE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THE CROCODILES SPIRIT IS ASSOCIATED WITH DEATH. I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH TO COMMENT FARTHER EXCEPT THAT I DON'T THINK THAT IS A BAD THING AS BOTH LIFE AND DEATH ARE A PART OF THEIR WORLD. WAR AND DEATH ARE ALSO LINKED SO A CROCODILE WITH ITS POWER AND SPIRIT OF DEATH WOULD BE A NATURAL CHOICE FOR A WAR WEAPON.

I just read the book of Eric Mjoberg, named "Borneo, the land of the headhunters." There you can find a paragraph about the connection between the crocodile and the dayaks.
Shortly what I have read is that: Most people of Borneo see the crocodile as holy. The crocodiles will be left alone, as long as it doesn't attack the people. Than it is an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth (or how the saying is going

).
You can imagine what impression such an big strong animal has to the dajaks who were animists. Therefore the crocodile figure is a well seen object on their carvings (such as coffins, or endcarvings on their praws, etc).
Some dayak tribes believe that the guards in the underworld are huge crocodiles, who guard the deads who go for their last voyage over a slimy treetrunk which is lying over a river to finally reach the land of shadows.

There is a legend that one of the greatest dayak chiefs ever lived had the shape of a crocodile. Therefore the great respect for the crocodile. But as I wrote earlier, when a crocodile attacks one of the dajaks of a certain tribe, it is declared the war and they will not rest till they killed the beast (and many crocodiles were killed before they had the right one).

But I think I am wondering of topic what Bill is asking (sorry Bill

.)
But maybe interesting for some people who didn't read the book.

But who says the head of the kampilan is supposed to be the mouth of a crocodile??????

I know the opinions will be differ on this one and I have no clue myself what to think ...........so I step out now and will follow this thread with great pleasure!

Kind regards,
Maurice

Mytribalworld · 27th October 2008, 09:30 PM

Hi Bill,

Thanks for starting this thread.A nice subject and we will probably never know what happend so we can only guess and try to get as much info as we can.

Its a little dangerous to build a theory on the not proven other theory of the crocodilemouth I think.
Personally I don't think the handle represents always the crocodile mouth but that for later......

If Magellan was killed with a kampilan I doubt if the model was the same as we know know on the Phillipines.
seemly the model of the handle has become some variations during the times.
However we haven't seen kampilans with dayak motifs it at least looks if the dayaks of North Borneo used a kampilan with a small variation into the handle.
they seem to be more like a massive block,ceratainly the lower "jaw"
Pics below are mainly described as Dusun ( north Borneo)

source RMV Leiden

Mytribalworld · 27th October 2008, 09:32 PM

On Timor however you find Kampilans with hughe handles....

In my opinion they have more in common with the head of a hornbill.

Whats for sure is that on Timor they couldn't make swordblades and every blade had to be obtained by trade.

Seemly these kampilans where also traded to Timor.The collection numbers are very old so probably these are very old pieces.
Whats also possible that they carved the handle themselves but I doubt that.
Note that on two pieces the handguard is asymetric.
We don't know if these kampilans where a model before the more common open "crocodile" type or a modification of that type.

I agree with Vandoo that the blade of a kampilan is'nt very handy into the forrest. But on a boat or open area it must be a great weapon.
Note however that the area of North borneo is more open than other parts of Borneo. On the other way it would not suprise me if the kampilan design was originally from the mainland of Malaysia but was modified for combat at sea,traded and got his influence from other cultures.
The hook at the end of the blade is very handy for entering or just keeping of entering boats from enemies.
There's a nice theory if this hook maybe represents a prowshead.

Mytribalworld · 27th October 2008, 10:23 PM

kampilan blade ends in compare with a kelawang from Pattani

according to the writer you can see even the two mast from the boat on one of the drawings...... I don't know but its interesting.

migueldiaz · 28th October 2008, 12:31 AM

Hello Bill,

Thanks for starting this thread as the kampilan is of great interest to me at the moment (I'm trying to acquire another piece).

Maurice, Vandoo, and Mandaukudi, thanks too for the additional info!

What I can add is taken from two books in front of me now. From Cato's good old "Moro Swords" (1996) --

"The basic form of the Moro kampilan was borrowed form Malay prototypes. The kampilan profile is strikingly similar to the klewang, mandau (parang ihlang) swords that were used in Indonesia and Malaya (now Malaysia).

"Dr. Mamitua Saber, noted Maranao expert on the history and culture of the Muslim Filipinos, has found evidence that variants of the kampilan exist in almost every country in insular Southeast Asia, including some of the isolated islands in the Indian Ocean, near Sumatra. It is his belief, however, that the most likely prototype for the Moro kampilan was the klewang, as produced by the inhabitants of the Celebes."

And from Krieger's "Primitive Weapons and Armor of the Philippine Islands" (1926):

"HAIRY KAMPILAN. -- This weapon denoted considerable rank on the part of he bearer. It is ornamented with a tuft of tufts of human or horse hair at the sides of the handle. The wooden handle is large, highly ornamented with carvings; bifid pommel. The large wooden cross guard is often provided with sword breaker and wrist protector. Moro. Weapon not essentially Filipino, but introduced by way of Borneo. North Bornean forms resemble it, as do also the north Celebes types with spur pointed at distal end. The weapon resembles the parang-ihlang.

xxx

"KAMPILAN. -- A long blade widening to a truncated distal end. The weapon is employed by the Moro private soldier. Large wooden handle sometimes highly carved. Sword breaker and wooden cross guard always present."

And then of course there's this other excellent thread, Towards a classification of the kampilan.

Maurice · 28th October 2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

On Timor however you find Kampilans with hughe handles....

In my opinion they have more in common with the head of a hornbill.

Hi Arjan,

I see what you mean and it looks indeed at a hornbill's head.
Did you noticed that the last pic of your Timor-examples has the hilt upsidedown?

The ,hairy, part of the hilt normally is on the ,edge, side of the blade.
To this one the ,hairy, side is at the backside of the blade (non-edge).

Mytribalworld · 29th October 2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Arjan,

I see what you mean and it looks indeed at a hornbill's head.
Did you noticed that the last pic of your Timor-examples has the hilt upsidedown?

The ,hairy, part of the hilt normally is on the ,edge, side of the blade.
To this one the ,hairy, side is at the backside of the blade (non-edge).

Hi Maurice,

yes, I seen but its no doubt that its turned when it was rehilted.

Dajak · 29th October 2008, 06:39 PM

There is no proof off that this type off kampilan was from philipine origine

There is only the name kampilan but the form is not proven from philipine .

Ben

VVV · 29th October 2008, 09:01 PM

Interesting with the ship and mast theory on the spike.
But I assume it's just speculation from the article writer, or?
Also most really old kampilan don't have this spike feature.
On crocodiles they are considered holy ("keramat") in Folk Islam too, especially if they are extraordinary large or white.
In Hindu times they were, like the tiger, connected to Batara Guru - Shiva.

On the origin, old sources, Dusun-attribute etc. we discussed that in depth in this old thread.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5032

Michael

27th October 2008, 09:30 PM	#2
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	Hi Bill, Thanks for starting this thread.A nice subject and we will probably never know what happend so we can only guess and try to get as much info as we can. Its a little dangerous to build a theory on the not proven other theory of the crocodilemouth I think. Personally I don't think the handle represents always the crocodile mouth but that for later...... If Magellan was killed with a kampilan I doubt if the model was the same as we know know on the Phillipines. seemly the model of the handle has become some variations during the times. However we haven't seen kampilans with dayak motifs it at least looks if the dayaks of North Borneo used a kampilan with a small variation into the handle. they seem to be more like a massive block,ceratainly the lower "jaw" Pics below are mainly described as Dusun ( north Borneo) source RMV Leiden Attached Images Last edited by mandaukudi; 27th October 2008 at 10:08 PM.

27th October 2008, 09:32 PM	#3
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	On Timor however you find Kampilans with hughe handles.... In my opinion they have more in common with the head of a hornbill. Whats for sure is that on Timor they couldn't make swordblades and every blade had to be obtained by trade. Seemly these kampilans where also traded to Timor.The collection numbers are very old so probably these are very old pieces. Whats also possible that they carved the handle themselves but I doubt that. Note that on two pieces the handguard is asymetric. We don't know if these kampilans where a model before the more common open "crocodile" type or a modification of that type. I agree with Vandoo that the blade of a kampilan is'nt very handy into the forrest. But on a boat or open area it must be a great weapon. Note however that the area of North borneo is more open than other parts of Borneo. On the other way it would not suprise me if the kampilan design was originally from the mainland of Malaysia but was modified for combat at sea,traded and got his influence from other cultures. The hook at the end of the blade is very handy for entering or just keeping of entering boats from enemies. There's a nice theory if this hook maybe represents a prowshead. Attached Images Last edited by mandaukudi; 27th October 2008 at 10:05 PM.

27th October 2008, 10:23 PM	#4
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	kampilan blade ends in compare with a kelawang from Pattani according to the writer you can see even the two mast from the boat on one of the drawings...... I don't know but its interesting. Attached Images

28th October 2008, 12:31 AM	#5
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Hello Bill, Thanks for starting this thread as the kampilan is of great interest to me at the moment (I'm trying to acquire another piece). Maurice, Vandoo, and Mandaukudi, thanks too for the additional info! What I can add is taken from two books in front of me now. From Cato's good old "Moro Swords" (1996) -- "The basic form of the Moro kampilan was borrowed form Malay prototypes. The kampilan profile is strikingly similar to the klewang, mandau (parang ihlang) swords that were used in Indonesia and Malaya (now Malaysia). "Dr. Mamitua Saber, noted Maranao expert on the history and culture of the Muslim Filipinos, has found evidence that variants of the kampilan exist in almost every country in insular Southeast Asia, including some of the isolated islands in the Indian Ocean, near Sumatra. It is his belief, however, that the most likely prototype for the Moro kampilan was the klewang, as produced by the inhabitants of the Celebes." And from Krieger's "Primitive Weapons and Armor of the Philippine Islands" (1926): "HAIRY KAMPILAN. -- This weapon denoted considerable rank on the part of he bearer. It is ornamented with a tuft of tufts of human or horse hair at the sides of the handle. The wooden handle is large, highly ornamented with carvings; bifid pommel. The large wooden cross guard is often provided with sword breaker and wrist protector. Moro. Weapon not essentially Filipino, but introduced by way of Borneo. North Bornean forms resemble it, as do also the north Celebes types with spur pointed at distal end. The weapon resembles the parang-ihlang. xxx "KAMPILAN. -- A long blade widening to a truncated distal end. The weapon is employed by the Moro private soldier. Large wooden handle sometimes highly carved. Sword breaker and wooden cross guard always present." And then of course there's this other excellent thread, Towards a classification of the kampilan.

29th October 2008, 06:39 PM	#8
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	There is no proof off that this type off kampilan was from philipine origine There is only the name kampilan but the form is not proven from philipine . Ben

29th October 2008, 09:01 PM	#9
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Interesting with the ship and mast theory on the spike. But I assume it's just speculation from the article writer, or? Also most really old kampilan don't have this spike feature. On crocodiles they are considered holy ("keramat") in Folk Islam too, especially if they are extraordinary large or white. In Hindu times they were, like the tiger, connected to Batara Guru - Shiva. On the origin, old sources, Dusun-attribute etc. we discussed that in depth in this old thread. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5032 Michael