Kukri production British India

Tim Simmons · 21st March 2005, 06:57 PM

In the publication British and Commonwealth Military knives.Ron Flook illustrates centers of manufacture as diverse as E Boota&Son {sikh} Rawalpindi now in Pakistan to Calcuta some way from Nepal.Various shapes and size may and may not be marked , made for both world wars.Some of the early ones being well used, can look most impressive.Are they still the ethnographic weapon you want to have?Tim

sirupate · 21st March 2005, 07:56 PM

Without doubt

Cheers Simon

Conogre · 21st March 2005, 07:56 PM

Good question.
As I understand it, Nepal designates the knife as THE national knife, but again the question arises of history.....just how widespread WAS the knife, during what periods, what local "flavors" developed over time, etc, etc.
In regards to kukris, I'm still following threads, reading versions, etc. and so far it appears that we have a situation similar to the dha, daarb or dah in that it rapidly spread over a wide and diverse area over a time period of up to 2,000 years or so (at least) so I suspect that the answer is yes.
In regards to this particular style of knife, I'm still one of the "newbies", thus am more than willing to defer to the more knowledgable and just absorb information, while I suspect we have a few members breathing a sigh of relief and saying, "It's about time....sheeeeesh!" **grin**
Mike

spiral · 21st March 2005, 08:06 PM

Intresting question Tim,
For me they are still ethnographic collectables, although military issue, the vast majority were still hand forged ground & fitted. Hence thier individuality.

Military mark kukris still have massive individual variations amongst even a particuler mark, made by the same "factory" {read big workshop} on the same contract in the same year, passed by the same inspector.

The kukri is also the native tool of the Garhwallis in India & there were /are very large Gurkha communities in Bengal/Assam & Burma as well as other parts of India.

Rawlpindi was a large gurkha base for heading for 100 years, so it seems natural to me that they would have got ther weapon of choice made localy.

Also On this theme Would you accept the inacuratly called {IMHO} "Indian machetes" illustrated by Ron Flook as collectable Ethnographics? {Surley they are military issue Dha?} Although they do have roller marks implying the were machine made rather than hand forged.

Regards,
Spiral

Tim Simmons · 21st March 2005, 08:22 PM

Hi Spiral, this is a difficult question.I tend to feel they are on the whole not an ethnographic collectors piece in the strictist sence, but being made to supply a largely "ethnic" group there is some crossover .I myself am waiting to find one of the early kukris mentioned cheap enough to temp me.I would also snap up any used military issue Dha and Dao both of which I have not yet encountered except for the new Dao type machete.Tim

sirupate · 21st March 2005, 10:29 PM

Hello Chaps,

I thought that Ethnographic was to do with scientific study of ethnic groups and their cultures, the kukri is very much a part of the Nepalese culture, so surely it doesn't matter where it was made?

Cheers Simon

spiral · 22nd March 2005, 10:58 AM

Well Tim, ww1 & ww2 kukri certainly turn up on ebay & through dealers, but cheaply is not always the case!

Intrestingly the modern Indian fakes of the Mk.2 style, normaly dated 1917 & with inspector stamp "37" with brass handle fittings quite often seem to sell for more than the originals

I guess they are often shiney though

.

As long as an item is handmade {at least partialy} & in an ethnic style , I percieve them as ethnographic.

If made in thier ethnic area by machine for locals ,I percieve them as ethnographic.

If made in thier ethnic area by machine for export,I percieve them as commercial, semi/almost ethnographic.

If made in a non ethnic area by machine for sale to non original ethnic people,I percieve them as commercial copies, non ethnographic.

regards,
Spiral

sirupate · 22nd March 2005, 08:47 PM

I think you have got the definition right on nail Spiral

Cheers Simon

inveterate · 23rd March 2005, 10:16 PM

I agree with your definition Spiral, even if not technically correct in a puritanical sense. Rod

derek · 24th March 2005, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

In the publication British and Commonwealth Military knives.Ron Flook illustrates centers of manufacture as diverse as E Boota&Son {sikh} Rawalpindi now in Pakistan to Calcuta some way from Nepal.Various shapes and size may and may not be marked , made for both world wars.Some of the early ones being well used, can look most impressive.Are they still the ethnographic weapon you want to have?Tim

Amazon had a copy, so I grabbed it and "The Unfettered Mind" (to get free shipping). Looking forward to reading both.

-d

spiral · 25th March 2005, 03:57 PM

Its a book that certainly earns its keep, & Is I understand out of print nowadays.

Spiral

21st March 2005, 06:57 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Kukri production British India In the publication British and Commonwealth Military knives.Ron Flook illustrates centers of manufacture as diverse as E Boota&Son {sikh} Rawalpindi now in Pakistan to Calcuta some way from Nepal.Various shapes and size may and may not be marked , made for both world wars.Some of the early ones being well used, can look most impressive.Are they still the ethnographic weapon you want to have?Tim

21st March 2005, 07:56 PM	#2
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Without doubt Cheers Simon

21st March 2005, 07:56 PM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Good question. As I understand it, Nepal designates the knife as THE national knife, but again the question arises of history.....just how widespread WAS the knife, during what periods, what local "flavors" developed over time, etc, etc. In regards to kukris, I'm still following threads, reading versions, etc. and so far it appears that we have a situation similar to the dha, daarb or dah in that it rapidly spread over a wide and diverse area over a time period of up to 2,000 years or so (at least) so I suspect that the answer is yes. In regards to this particular style of knife, I'm still one of the "newbies", thus am more than willing to defer to the more knowledgable and just absorb information, while I suspect we have a few members breathing a sigh of relief and saying, "It's about time....sheeeeesh!" grin Mike

21st March 2005, 08:06 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Intresting question Tim, For me they are still ethnographic collectables, although military issue, the vast majority were still hand forged ground & fitted. Hence thier individuality. Military mark kukris still have massive individual variations amongst even a particuler mark, made by the same "factory" {read big workshop} on the same contract in the same year, passed by the same inspector. The kukri is also the native tool of the Garhwallis in India & there were /are very large Gurkha communities in Bengal/Assam & Burma as well as other parts of India. Rawlpindi was a large gurkha base for heading for 100 years, so it seems natural to me that they would have got ther weapon of choice made localy. Also On this theme Would you accept the inacuratly called {IMHO} "Indian machetes" illustrated by Ron Flook as collectable Ethnographics? {Surley they are military issue Dha?} Although they do have roller marks implying the were machine made rather than hand forged. Regards, Spiral

21st March 2005, 08:22 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hi Spiral, this is a difficult question.I tend to feel they are on the whole not an ethnographic collectors piece in the strictist sence, but being made to supply a largely "ethnic" group there is some crossover .I myself am waiting to find one of the early kukris mentioned cheap enough to temp me.I would also snap up any used military issue Dha and Dao both of which I have not yet encountered except for the new Dao type machete.Tim

21st March 2005, 10:29 PM	#6
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Hello Chaps, I thought that Ethnographic was to do with scientific study of ethnic groups and their cultures, the kukri is very much a part of the Nepalese culture, so surely it doesn't matter where it was made? Cheers Simon

22nd March 2005, 10:58 AM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Well Tim, ww1 & ww2 kukri certainly turn up on ebay & through dealers, but cheaply is not always the case! Intrestingly the modern Indian fakes of the Mk.2 style, normaly dated 1917 & with inspector stamp "37" with brass handle fittings quite often seem to sell for more than the originals I guess they are often shiney though . As long as an item is handmade {at least partialy} & in an ethnic style , I percieve them as ethnographic. If made in thier ethnic area by machine for locals ,I percieve them as ethnographic. If made in thier ethnic area by machine for export,I percieve them as commercial, semi/almost ethnographic. If made in a non ethnic area by machine for sale to non original ethnic people,I percieve them as commercial copies, non ethnographic. regards, Spiral

22nd March 2005, 08:47 PM	#8
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	I think you have got the definition right on nail Spiral Cheers Simon

23rd March 2005, 10:16 PM	#9
inveterate Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 58	I agree with your definition Spiral, even if not technically correct in a puritanical sense. Rod

25th March 2005, 03:57 PM	#11
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Its a book that certainly earns its keep, & Is I understand out of print nowadays. Spiral