King of Navajas

[Gavin Nugent]

Hello fellow forumites, here are some pics of my latest Navaja purchase. It wont be in my hands until next week but I couldn't wait to share it. This little fellow is 34 inches closed and a tiny 64 inches open....tiny NOT!!! I'll be sure to add more detailed photos for those who are interested in these exotic knives.
As guessed by myself and indicated by fellow forumite Chris, this would be a cutlers display piece from the late 1800's. I am hoping someone can share their knowledge with regards to the images of soldiers on the blade? Who they are and from what period and country they are from?

all the best

Gav

[cylord21]

It is an Spanish “navaja”, these type of navajas were made mostly between the 18 and 19 century, usually they have inscriptions on them and sometimes filled with enamel paint, see http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001357.html. Most famous production locations were Albacete, Santa Cruz de Mudena, Jerez de la Frontera and Sevilla. There are navajas from Sevilla with the same type of work that the one you show here has on the beginning of the blade and the one from Albacete have an internal locking mechanism (see the difference from the one on the link, supoused to be from Santa Cruz as i been told they have a totally external locking mechnism). These navajas are a difficult subject that requires an expert to identify location and period but it should be from one of the four mentioned locations. As for the size I have seen a picture of a beautiful navaja from sevilla that measures 261 cm when open (about 102 and ¾ inches). Mine was supposed to be the biggest , your is bigger than mine and the one from sevilla is humungous , I wonder what’s out there. Whatever the size this are nice display weapons to have and they do make a fine conversation piece even for those who are not into blade collection .

[ariel]

Is this the same one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Giant-Navajo-Kni...QQcmdZViewItem

[Chris Evans]

Hi,

You see Virginia, size does matter!

Cheers
Chris

[Gavin Nugent]

I am now guessing Cylord that this little fella must be the prince of Navaja, the quest continues to find the King of Kings

Yes Ariel as you have indicated to me it is the one and the same

Gav

[Chris Evans]

Hi,

Now, this is a a navaja!

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/6531000.jpg

Cheers
Chris

[ariel]

Handy penknife..
" Are you carrying a Navaja in your pocket or are happy to see me?"

[Gavin Nugent]

Chris has just found the King, though I feel that fat buggar would need a horse and cart to carry him around and need many royal servents to remove him from said horse and cart.


Gav

[Gavin Nugent]

While I find information on Navaja quite readily available, I am finding it very difficult finding images of Shop displays and exhibitions where these pieces may have been found. I have seen many images of other syles of weapons in major exhibitions but none thus far of these Navaja. Did they indeed travel outside of their native Spain to show their wares or were they restricted by geography.

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gav,

It is well known that by the middle of the 19th century the Spanish cutlery industry was on its knees and could barely resist the flood of French imports that poured into the country in millions - All this on account of poor quality and high prices (Referenec:Forton). According to Forton, the halcyon era of the Spanish cutlery industry was before the 19th century.

Whilst Spain did have some colonies in the late 1800s and it may have exported navajas to these, I don't think the volume would have been sufficiently great to warrant a maker or his representative to travel with gigantic display pieces. Fernando did mention that Spanish navajas found their way into Portugal, so depending on the volume of trade, that is one possibility. Also, small quantities were sent to Sth America but I am led to believe that the trade never amounted to much. From the 1850s on, the great cutlery exporting nations were England, France and Germany.

In the 20th century, the `navajas de muestra', literally show pieces, were generally displayed at factories/workshops, shops and `ferias', (markets/fairs), as evidenced by photos . As for the olden days we can only guess, but probably did not differ greatly from later times. As well, I imagine that there must have been trade shows and industrial expositions, held both in Spain and abroad and it is entirely conceivable that some cutlers were taken along to complement other exhibits, even though the expected interest in their ware would have been small.

The source of the photo is "La Cuchilleria De Albacete En El Siglo XX"

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Evans]

Hi,

Here we have an earlier photo of an oversized navaja being displayed by a cutler and his workers in 1908

The source of the photo is "La Cuchilleria De Albacete En El Siglo XX"

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Evans]

Gavin,

I am afraid that your navaja will have trouble making it into even the lesser nobility!


Natalio, Pedro and Daniel Martinez Redondo in 1980 with their prize winning navaja that found its way into the Guinness book of records.


The source of the photo is "La Cuchilleria De Albacete En El Siglo XX"

[Gavin Nugent]

Outstanding Chris, I knew you'd come through with some references.

Very interesting to see the 3 very different styles and that cutlers were still having a go at Navaja of huge proportions in modern times.

The image I see in the 1908 photo looks very much like a 1.76metre Navaja that sold last year in the US. I guess everyone would be plucking at straws with the questions I am about to ask, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. How many of these over sized Navaja do you think existed in the 1800/early1900s, considering the decline in sales, would they still be considered a banned item under Spanish law at this huge size and is there any reference anywhere as to where these first started to appear in these proportions?

very best regards

Gavin

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gavin,

Originally Posted by freebooter

Outstanding Chris, I knew you'd come through with some references.

Very interesting to see the 3 very different styles and that cutlers were still having a go at Navaja of huge proportions in modern times.

The image I see in the 1908 photo looks very much like a 1.76metre Navaja that sold last year in the US. I guess everyone would be plucking at straws with the questions I am about to ask, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. How many of these over sized Navaja do you think existed in the 1800/early1900s, considering the decline in sales, would they still be considered a banned item under Spanish law at this huge size and is there any reference anywhere as to where these first started to appear in these proportions?

very best regards

Gavin

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gavin,

Originally Posted by freebooter

Outstanding Chris, I knew you'd come through with some references.

Very interesting to see the 3 very different styles and that cutlers were still having a go at Navaja of huge proportions in modern times.

The image I see in the 1908 photo looks very much like a 1.76metre Navaja that sold last year in the US. I guess everyone would be plucking at straws with the questions I am about to ask, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. How many of these over sized Navaja do you think existed in the 1800/early1900s, considering the decline in sales, would they still be considered a banned item under Spanish law at this huge size and is there any reference anywhere as to where these first started to appear in these proportions?

very best regards

Gavin

You pose an excellent question.

I don't have a complete answer, but we know that navajas like yours were made in the 1800 (from style and workmanship) and that quite a number of oversized (to be practical) pieces from the 19th century are being held in collections and offered for sale every now and then.

Perhaps it would help if we divided show piece navajas into two groups; Those that conceivably could have been used, but were not, on account of excessive weakness, price and weight, say blades ranging from 12" to 20" and those whose dimensions were so great that they could only be dedicated display pieces. Of the first lot, quite a number must have been made because they keep turning up regularly. As for the dedicated display specimens, probably very few, because there were not that many cutlers of renown over the last 150yrs.

However... I did say to you in an e-mail, that there was a roaring trade in the late 1800s for decoration weapons in Western Europe. These were sought by the better heeled of the newly emerging wealthy and everything from medieval swords to rapiers and armour were made to satisfy this demand, some of quite high quality. I have a strong feeling that the Spanish cutlers also catered for this clientele with navajas that looked good but were never intended for use and suspect that some of the bigger ones were squarely aimed at this market. I know that some very large navajas were being still made in the 70s, navajas that had no other function than to decorate.

As for the attitude of the law re these exageratios, I am inclined to believe that they simply ignored them as they did not pose a threat to law and order. I find it significant that despite regular crackdowns, in Southern Spain the cutlery industry was selling lockable navajas of all sizes, whereas in other parts of the country lock-less friction folders (Taramundi type) or demi-locks (French style) were normative. This suggests to me that the authorities were more tolerant in the South because of the economic importance of the industry.

Cheers
Chris

[Gavin Nugent]

Just a quick note to thank you for your outstanding postings Chris, always a pleasure to view your efforts and it now appears this little fellow is but a lowly serf.

thanks

Gavin

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gavin,



Cheers
Chris