Keeping a keris for protection

David · 26th December 2007, 05:09 PM

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

Pusaka · 26th December 2007, 08:38 PM

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

PenangsangII · 27th December 2007, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

Dear Pusaka,

I believe if you have an old keris and do not know the history of the keris, its not advisable to keep the keris at home. You will never know "who" is residing in the keris, I mean, the "isi".

In order to solve this problem, you will have to find a wiseman or a person very knowledgable in keris philosophy, and get him to communicate to the empu and the isi. How the keris should be treated, how its to be cleaned, how its supposed to be dressed, what kind of assistance can the isi give and everything there is to know. Only then you will be able to decide whether an old keris should be in your collection or otherwise

pakana · 27th December 2007, 07:16 AM

Dear Penangsang,

You are right.But in order for the keris to "reveal" itself to a wiseman or magus, it has to be strong enough, just like semar said. Otherwise it is impossible for it to accomplice that task.

And I was told that the "resident" inside is not something invited "in" to stay, but the sum of the thoughts,intention, and (part) of spirit of the maker.So when you "communicate" with a keris, actually you communicate with the spirit of the long dead empu..freaky!!

george

PenangsangII · 27th December 2007, 08:16 AM

For an old neglected keris, yes, the uninvited guest may reside in, but for a spiritually well maintained keris, the isi, prayers and the spirit of the empu can be called upon (menayuh / pal).

Being able to communicate with the original empu is not supposed to be freaky but a memorable learning experience. You will be closer to the keris than ever before, and the isi or djinn or whoever the resident of the keris will be happy to help you out since you can now treat your keris as previously carried out by the original empu and owner.

PenangsangII · 27th December 2007, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you....

And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.

Generally speaking, when an empu forges a keris, he would perform certain ritual such as mutih fasting, patigeni, meditation etc, and recites special prayers to imbue special power into the keris, called the "isi". In my limited knowledge, the actions undertaken by the empu is actually calling unseen being (normally Djinn) to reside in the keris, and would help the keris owner depending on the reason why the keris was ordered by the owner in the first place, i.e. commerce, protection, war etc etc. Depending on the "ilmu" of the empu. and later on the owner, the power of the "isi" or Djinn may vary from one keris to another....

Just my 0.02 cents.

David · 27th December 2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you....

And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.

Well Penangsang, i didn't actually "discount" anything. What i wrote was that they "don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to".
This is not to say that a Djinn could not get into a keris either, but i am not convinced that this particular type of spirit is the same that empus once embued into keris.
It should also be kept in mind that very,very few of the keris (if any) in most of our merger collections (yes, some of you lucky devils are exceptions) were actually made by empus. Most of even the good ones were probably made by highly skilled village smiths. Whether these were given the same type of spiritual attention as an empu made piece is highly debateable, but this doesn't mean that these keris do not hold energy from other sources such as the continued practice of holding and honoring the keris by it's owners passed down over generations.

Pusaka · 27th December 2007, 04:59 PM

I know some of you guys have loads of keris, hundreds! If you believe this then your house must have several spirits either helping or trying to kill you

You dont necessarily need an adept to tell you if a keris is good or not, some people put the keris under their pillow when they first get it. If their dreams are bad they simply get the keris out of their house.

Any of you ever own a keris you thought was bad?

I'm not sure I understand what an isi is, can someone give me the English equivalent? Is it a created intelligence made with the empu's sakti through the help of a mantra etc or is it a natural spirit invited to have a connection with the keris?

David · 27th December 2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

I'm not sure I understand what an isi is, can someone give me the English equivalent? Is it a created intelligence made with the empu's sakti through the help of a mantra etc or is it a natural spirit invited to have a connection with the keris?

I believe that the literal translation is "fill up", but of course, as with all things keris, once you apply it to this sphere of thinking that definition is not quite as telling as one might like.

Personally i have never met a keris that i have thought has "bad" energy or spirits. I would say that this is because of my close-minded Western way of looking at the universe, however, i happen to be a true believer in the unseen worlds and do not hold the general Western concept that all this is merely superstition and nonsense. But i have over 40 keris in my house and i have never had any trouble with any of them. Some i am sure i can sense energy in, some i have personally put energy into, while others seem more quite. All of them are appreciated though, treated with respect and oiled and incensed regularly. Maybe that is what keeps them on there best behavior.

Pusaka · 27th December 2007, 08:44 PM

David,

Your right there are many things you could fill up a keris with, oil, sent,spirits, wishes etc

If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself.
I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

pakana · 28th December 2007, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

David,

Your right there are many things you could fill up a keris with, oil, sent,spirits, wishes etc

If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself.
I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

Oh yes, he is true

David · 28th December 2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself.
I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

The man certain does seem to have some real skills, though i wonder if the movement in the keris isn't more a testament to his power rather than the keris.

Pusaka · 30th December 2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

All of them are appreciated though, treated with respect and oiled and incensed regularly.

David may I ask what incense you burn for the keris? I would be interested to know what others use also. Is there one which is considered traditional for this purpose?

David · 30th December 2007, 07:07 PM

I try to use sandalwood when i can though i have used others including nag champa. I prefer to use the woodier scents as opposed to sweet fragrances. Ultimately i think it is more about intention than the actual scent and whatever you decide is best for you and your keris will be best for you.

26th December 2007, 05:09 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,101	Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

26th December 2007, 08:38 PM	#2
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Semar, The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it. In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

27th December 2007, 07:16 AM	#4
pakana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 74	Dear Penangsang, You are right.But in order for the keris to "reveal" itself to a wiseman or magus, it has to be strong enough, just like semar said. Otherwise it is impossible for it to accomplice that task. And I was told that the "resident" inside is not something invited "in" to stay, but the sum of the thoughts,intention, and (part) of spirit of the maker.So when you "communicate" with a keris, actually you communicate with the spirit of the long dead empu..freaky!! george

27th December 2007, 08:16 AM	#5
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	For an old neglected keris, yes, the uninvited guest may reside in, but for a spiritually well maintained keris, the isi, prayers and the spirit of the empu can be called upon (menayuh / pal). Being able to communicate with the original empu is not supposed to be freaky but a memorable learning experience. You will be closer to the keris than ever before, and the isi or djinn or whoever the resident of the keris will be happy to help you out since you can now treat your keris as previously carried out by the original empu and owner.

27th December 2007, 04:59 PM	#8
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	I know some of you guys have loads of keris, hundreds! If you believe this then your house must have several spirits either helping or trying to kill you You dont necessarily need an adept to tell you if a keris is good or not, some people put the keris under their pillow when they first get it. If their dreams are bad they simply get the keris out of their house. Any of you ever own a keris you thought was bad? I'm not sure I understand what an isi is, can someone give me the English equivalent? Is it a created intelligence made with the empu's sakti through the help of a mantra etc or is it a natural spirit invited to have a connection with the keris?

27th December 2007, 08:44 PM	#10
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	David, Your right there are many things you could fill up a keris with, oil, sent,spirits, wishes etc If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself. I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

30th December 2007, 07:07 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,101	I try to use sandalwood when i can though i have used others including nag champa. I prefer to use the woodier scents as opposed to sweet fragrances. Ultimately i think it is more about intention than the actual scent and whatever you decide is best for you and your keris will be best for you.