Repairing the hilt on a visayan sword

Federico · 12th March 2005, 02:18 AM

Very nice find and repair. If you ever have to do a repair again, I got a big ol tub of pitch if you would like to use some. Ive liked the removability of pitch (little heat it pops off). One of the things my dad told me about filler, such as cloth strips, fiber, etc... Was when he and his father would search for new bolo, they would always check how well the blade was secured. According to him, alot of the blades did not use enough pitch/glue to secure the blade, and hence the filler (also for fit).

Conogre, difference between Binangon and Tenegre. Zel correct me if Im wrong, since Im not good with this myself, but the binangon are the pieces with more kampilanesque blades, and tengres are the pieces with the clipped point bowie like blades.

Ian · 12th March 2005, 07:56 PM

Thanks for the offer Federico. I've often wondered where I could find small quantities of pitch for these jobs. I'll be back in touch when I next have a hilt to reattach.

Lot of good helpful advice. Thanks to all for your comments.

Ian.

Battara · 15th March 2005, 03:08 AM

Nice work, Ian. Nice pictures too. One day, when I grow up, I will have a digital camera and record my work in progress (as several of you have requested). Instant cameras apparently don't work as well as advertised.

Conogre · 15th March 2005, 05:35 AM

Thank you Ina and Federico...as I said, I followed perhaps 20 threads and just about the time I thought I'd figured it out, I'd run across a piece that contradicted the others and I'd be off and running again.
While I appreciate the Moro weapons, I have to admit to finding the heavy tengres and binangons every bit as battle worthy and beautiful, and then when more and more surfaced about the lumad blades and the Mandaya weapons I guess I've been a more evenly distributed admirer than most and am finally glad to see a few others drifting in the same general direction.
How about another question...are Manday weapons considered lumad, or is this another fine distinction?
Mike

Ian · 15th March 2005, 06:04 AM

Hi Mike. Yes the Mandaya are one of the Lumad tribes.

tom hyle · 15th March 2005, 12:15 PM

BTW, note that the main direction of visible grind-lines is across the blade. We're often advised to always sand/grind/polish along blades, but this is by no means historically warranted. It is more after the nature of an aspect of modern Western Industrial culture, and is closely associated with the concept of invisible craftsmanship.

The oceanic SE Asian cutting sword tang is not, as it is sometimes called, flat. It is a rectangular-section wedge, tapered for width and often for thickness. Certainly the tightness of fit in the hilt does affect the solidity of the joint, and the degree to which the wedge effect is taken advantage of; some blades fit so tightly and well as to almost not require adhesive, while others are so loose there is no real wedge affect. Wood and iron are stronger than pitch and cloth; a tight fit is best if you ask me. On the other hand, there are those who praise the shock absorbtion of softer materials.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 15th March 2005, 12:36 PM

Ian et all, Am Sorry I have been absent. Wonderful blade and a great job on the rehilting! Have not found one of these yet in Manila, howver I'm still looking!

ariel · 29th March 2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico

Very nice find and repair. If you ever have to do a repair again, I got a big ol tub of pitch if you would like to use some. Ive liked the removability of pitch (little heat it pops off). One of the things my dad told me about filler, such as cloth strips, fiber, etc... Was when he and his father would search for new bolo, they would always check how well the blade was secured. According to him, alot of the blades did not use enough pitch/glue to secure the blade, and hence the filler (also for fit).

Conogre, difference between Binangon and Tenegre. Zel correct me if Im wrong, since Im not good with this myself, but the binangon are the pieces with more kampilanesque blades, and tengres are the pieces with the clipped point bowie like blades.

The one Ian referred to (just ended on e-bay)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6519537548
has a totally different, upswept, point..
Does it have its own name?

Federico · 29th March 2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

[/B]
The one Ian referred to (just ended on e-bay)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6519537548
has a totally different, upswept, point..
Does it have its own name?

I believe this would still count as a Tenegre, in as much the term Tenegre is accurate.

Rick · 29th March 2005, 07:52 PM

As I write this there are twice as many people lurking here than there are members currently online .

LabanTayo · 29th March 2005, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

As I write this there are twice as many people lurking here than there are members currently online .

message to the lurkers:
all the swords with the funny looking faces and big teeth and noses are actually a similation of an old drunk clown called Kakatawa. the ones with the big eyes are called Serang Ulo. they were made for the tourist trade. they sat low on a shelf so the kids would see them and tell their mommy to by them. really good marketing by the sari-sari (neighborhood convenient store) store owners made these swords very popular. you can find tons of them in junk stores or clown memorabilia stores in the philippines.
they have no real collector or martial value.
thats the true history of the tenegre (talibong) and binangon (ginungting).

Federico · 29th March 2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LabanTayo

message to the lurkers:
all the swords with the funny looking faces and big teeth and noses are actually a similation of an old drunk clown called Kakatawa. the ones with the big eyes are called Serang Ulo. they were made for the tourist trade. they sat low on a shelf so the kids would see them and tell their mommy to by them. really good marketing by the sari-sari (neighborhood convenient store) store owners made these swords very popular. you can find tons of them in junk stores or clown memorabilia stores in the philippines.
they have no real collector or martial value.
thats the true history of the tenegre (talibong) and binangon (ginungting).

So I take it that you like I, only collect worthless tourist junk, and so everyone on Ebay who sees my handle bidding on an item can rest assured that it is of absolutely no value, and should rather save their money for lovely precious dha

Rick · 30th March 2005, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico

So I take it that you like I, only collect worthless tourist junk, and so everyone on Ebay who sees my handle bidding on an item can rest assured that it is of absolutely no value, and should rather save their money for lovely precious dha

DHA , the other Nihonto ........

29th March 2005, 07:52 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Speaking Of Lurkers As I write this there are twice as many people lurking here than there are members currently online .

12th March 2005, 02:18 AM	#1
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Very nice find and repair. If you ever have to do a repair again, I got a big ol tub of pitch if you would like to use some. Ive liked the removability of pitch (little heat it pops off). One of the things my dad told me about filler, such as cloth strips, fiber, etc... Was when he and his father would search for new bolo, they would always check how well the blade was secured. According to him, alot of the blades did not use enough pitch/glue to secure the blade, and hence the filler (also for fit). Conogre, difference between Binangon and Tenegre. Zel correct me if Im wrong, since Im not good with this myself, but the binangon are the pieces with more kampilanesque blades, and tengres are the pieces with the clipped point bowie like blades.

12th March 2005, 07:56 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Thanks for the offer Federico. I've often wondered where I could find small quantities of pitch for these jobs. I'll be back in touch when I next have a hilt to reattach. Lot of good helpful advice. Thanks to all for your comments. Ian.

15th March 2005, 03:08 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	Nice work, Ian. Nice pictures too. One day, when I grow up, I will have a digital camera and record my work in progress (as several of you have requested). Instant cameras apparently don't work as well as advertised.

15th March 2005, 05:35 AM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Thank you Ina and Federico...as I said, I followed perhaps 20 threads and just about the time I thought I'd figured it out, I'd run across a piece that contradicted the others and I'd be off and running again. While I appreciate the Moro weapons, I have to admit to finding the heavy tengres and binangons every bit as battle worthy and beautiful, and then when more and more surfaced about the lumad blades and the Mandaya weapons I guess I've been a more evenly distributed admirer than most and am finally glad to see a few others drifting in the same general direction. How about another question...are Manday weapons considered lumad, or is this another fine distinction? Mike

15th March 2005, 06:04 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi Mike. Yes the Mandaya are one of the Lumad tribes.

15th March 2005, 12:15 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	BTW, note that the main direction of visible grind-lines is across the blade. We're often advised to always sand/grind/polish along blades, but this is by no means historically warranted. It is more after the nature of an aspect of modern Western Industrial culture, and is closely associated with the concept of invisible craftsmanship. The oceanic SE Asian cutting sword tang is not, as it is sometimes called, flat. It is a rectangular-section wedge, tapered for width and often for thickness. Certainly the tightness of fit in the hilt does affect the solidity of the joint, and the degree to which the wedge effect is taken advantage of; some blades fit so tightly and well as to almost not require adhesive, while others are so loose there is no real wedge affect. Wood and iron are stronger than pitch and cloth; a tight fit is best if you ask me. On the other hand, there are those who praise the shock absorbtion of softer materials.

15th March 2005, 12:36 PM	#7
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Ian et all, Am Sorry I have been absent. Wonderful blade and a great job on the rehilting! Have not found one of these yet in Manila, howver I'm still looking!